[lincpimp]

Originally Posted by Sower

I know we have some major differences of opinion linc, but despite all of them I actually like you and a lot of what you say. On this . . . I can't just sit back.

I have no problem with people having opinions, but you're totally stepping over the line there. This is not the place to call the leader of another religion "Hitler". That is totally outrageous and freaking pisses me off. Not only am I Catholic, I would say that the Pope has done more for humanity than most other leaders in the world.

Dude, you can say all kinds of stuff and I'm cool with turning the other cheek but bashing my religion like that is crazy and you can't expect me to just not say anytyhing. Totally inapropriate, selfish, and remedial. You have no business to post that kind of crap.

Originally Posted by Sower

One more think limpnic . . . if you want to make a statement like that you better back it up with something factual. You want a freakin' debate on this, then bring it.

Why not start throwing racial slurs around too while you're at it? How about mentally handicapped people? Anything against them? Go for it - what's stopping you?

Alright, I better get out of here before I say any more. I already know I've said too much.

Originally Posted by starscream

I'm not going to justify what linc said, he'll have to speak for himself on that, but if you'd like factual evidence of wrong doings of the Chatholic Church, just let me know and I can send you a whole laundry list.
Burning People at the stake for being a herotic is just one of many many many examples.
I don't think there is a perfect Church out there. How can there be, they are run by people and people are not perfect (even though some of us think we are).
Linc's anaology was an exageration but the difference between America and other countries is we still have the freedom of speach.

Originally Posted by Sower

First off, you're right. The Catholic Church - or better stated, the people in the Catholic Church . . . have committed many attorcities. I'm not here to discuss that, and in all reality I shouldn't have asked for any examples. I'm well aware of them and feel no need to discuss them.

Beyond that though, his statement was about the 21st century - nothing else. If not for JP II working with Reagan to oppose communism, this world could be much different today.

My biggest problem with his statement was that it was blatantly inflamatory, egotistic, and flat out bashed my religion. I really don't care if he feels that way - that's his business. But this forum has usually been more respectful of other people's religious choices. I'm actually surprised nobody else said anything.

I did find it interesting though that on one hand the Pope is being called Hitler, and at the same time the person making that charge is talking about controlling the population and spewing hate about a religion. Kind of ironic really.

Originally Posted by Sower

Oh, one more thing . . . yes, we have freedom of speech, but we should practice restraint and respect for other people too. Just because you feel a certain way doesn't mean you should say it.

I'm free to walk down the street and call obese people fat or whatever I want - probably not a good idea though if I have any respect for them.

Originally Posted by Sower

Look, I don't want to get into a huge debate about my example - it was just to point out that yes, we're "free" to say whatever we want but that doesn't mean we should. That's all.

Bottom line is that the comment was similar to an inflamatory personal attack. I mean, give me a break, what's more sensitive than insulting someone's religion?

But if you want to stick to the "actions or consequences from a person's influence", then I would really like to know what the Pope has done in the 21st century that would allow an intelligent person to compare him to Hitler.

Originally Posted by starscream

Well, to be fair, the Hitler comparison has nothing to do with "insulting someone's religion" as the Pope is not a religion. The Pope is the head of the Catholic church which is a christion religion but the Catholic church is not the authority on the Christian religion, however much they want to be.
Being the leader of a church makes you the focal point for whatever greivances others may have with the church.
I also don't feel the need for a huge debate about this but I also don't think we need to revert back to burining people at the stake because they have been designated a herotic. This is exactly what causes these kinds of remarks in the first place.

Originally Posted by Sower

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I respect your opinion, but I just don't agree with you. And quite honestly I feel like this is just a bunch of specious arguments. Yes, I understand that the Pope is not a religion and didn't say he was. However, I don't see how you can sit there and say those comments aren't an insult to Catholics. You don't think they are - that's fine, I do.

We've gotten off subject though - I still feel it's totally out of line to blast someone with such a hateful tag without backing it up. Again - what has the Pope done in the 21st century that deserves the comparison to Hitler?

Why is it so hard to just agree with me that linc's comments were out of line? I mean really, how many people can be compared to Hitler in a serious tone?

Ok Sower, calm down. You are obvious religious, and I do not hold that against you. It happens to alot of people, and I still coexist with all of them.

I may point out that my remarks about the pope were not specifically pointed at the current pope, but all who have held the title. Keep in mind that whoever holds that title is "infallible". As far as commenting on the institution of "pope" he is just a man, no different from you or I. And if you read into that last statement you will hopefully begin to understand where I am coming from. I never attempted to insult any praticing catholics. You belive whatever you want, be it the christioan god, muslin one, or faries, or anything else. That will not change the fact that the chatolic church under the leadership of a pope has committed crimes against humanity over its 2000+ year reign. Thats history, and it is doctored by those in power to show whatever they want. I have no issues if you ignore it, but it still happened. If you can sleep at night knowing that fine by me.

As for comparing hitler to the pope. Well hitler belived in god too, so maybe he read the wrong part of the bible? I am sure he would not have done it if he thought it was wrong. But what you think is wrong does not matter, what is wrong is wrong. People like the pope, and hitler and most people fail to see the big picture of what we are doing to ourselves.

As for my statement: "I hope we all realize that we now have too many people on the planet... Time to stop the worthless breeding... Not enough to go round. But the pope will never let that happen... Theres your 21st century hitler, right there. Done more damage to mankind that any other figurehead in history. And if you don't agree I don't care, I'm right on this one."

We do have too many people, the planet cannot sustain our lifestyles. Only way I can see to cure that is to reduce the number of people, cause we can't make the earth bigger. We are greedy by nature, and that "want" will be our undoing. I really cannot see another cure for this, "hope and change" just won't do it.

No as far as you calling me a laundry list of names... I can only see that you definately have an issue being wrong. We went down this road with the avatar crap quite a while ago. No right or wrong there, but as I remember the majority did not seem to mind it. Had we voted the outcome would have been different. I changed it to cure the problem, plain and simple. Just because you happen to fall in with the majority, does not mean that you are right, just means that alot of people are wrong. History shows that time and time again.

As far as my comments being out of line, I agree. They are out of line for a forum dedicated to brushless electric. Problem is I still think they are true, and that is what pisses you off deep down inside. You should be more understanding to other peoples ideas. If you are so right you should be happy about being right and look down on people like me for being so obviously wrong. And you ask me for proof... what if I asked for some proof that the pope is infallible... That falls under faith, either you have it or you don't.

I do know quite a few jokes about all kinds of people and their problems. As far as racial slurs go, they apply when they apply. No need to use a generic word to insult someone when you can insult them personally. Racial slurs and 4 letter words are used by people who lack the wit and insight to properly insult someone. I would never stoop as low as to insult someone via their religios beliefs.

Now if you still feel insulted just remember that hitler was not the only man involed in the axis powers. There were millions of people that followed him, and did what he said. He was their furer, literally a god among men. Bad things happen when men get too much power...