Quote:
Originally Posted by PBO
Yeah, I should know politicians would never do anything within their means to grab votes or risk political suicide. Guess I'm not a serious person - oh well back to absurdity I go
OBL was still handed his best case outcome on a platter, without any serious attempt to follow international law. U-S-A! U-S-A!
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I'm sorry man, I'm not trying to insult you, and I generally regard you as very reasonable, well-read and thoughtful person. I usually enjoy and agree with many of your opinions on various topics that have come up through the years.
I will also say I don't mean those comments specificly aimed at you, but as a reaction to some of the opinions, as well as some nonsense from political opponents, that have gone on around after the announcement. Stupid stuff like "we killed bin Laden 10 yrs ago, and have kept him frozen until now to boost poll #'s" or "of course O
bama could find O
sama, he just looked his buddy up in his Muslim Terrorist phonebook."
Was it OBL's best case scenario? Maybe. Was it ours too? Probably.
Who comes out better on top? We've destroyed the figuritive, spiritual and operational head of Al Queso, as well as seized a gold mine of intellegence info on the remaining members, their methods and funders. We've put fear into them. No matter how well they hide, we will eventually find and kill them. We've crippled them at a time of waning influence and relevence. They have to communicate and organize if they want to try and recover, but by doing so they expose themselves to us at their peril.
What have they won? A martyr? Yeah. Question is how much will it matter? Who knows for sure, but I'm thinking not much. Have we strained relations w/ Pakistan? Definately. Other unforseen consequences? Surely, as always.
International Law? Nobody here gives a fk. I was living in NY (upstate, not in the city tho) at the time, and I could see the smoke from the burning towers from home. For months I drove around the neighborhoods, going to work, around all the fire companies with memorials out front from members lost on 9/11. Terrible. I have cousins who got sent to Iraq on the lie it was for 9/11, one to come home nearly killed, and w/ permanant brain damage from resulting injuries and 6 wk coma. Went to visit him in the big army hospital in DC, and saw all the
kids with missing arms, legs or worse there. I know many coworkers who have sons or brother's or friends with similar stories.
Honestly, I couldn't care if they shot him while they found him in the bathroom beating off to goat pr0n. Its a mercy we didn't shoot
all his effing wives and kids in head.
The whole orientation of the country changed that day, and little for the better. All due to that fcker and his psychotic vision for the world. We did a lot of stupid things as well, don't get me wrong, but thousands have died in many countries all over the world due to him, and I'm overjoyed we put a hole into his head. I don't really care they messed up some of the details, or "needed improvement on their messenging," or maybe had some fish stories going on. We won't likely to know all the facts for some time. Only one real fact matters: Bin Laden is dead, not even Al Queso denies it, and this gives us the opportunity to close an ugly chapter in American history.
Consequences and reactions will continue to play out, but I can't see how this could possibly be the game changer Al Queso wanted, and will motivate them to do something horrible they hadn't
already been planning to do.
Lastly, as far as PR stunts: undoubtedly all pols try and use events and narratives to their favor. I'm under no illusions Obama is not a politician. However, the timeline for this to be a pure PR stunt, when the president has lost some % amidst some ugly budget/deficit fights and rising gasoline costs, pulls out the Bin Laden trump card he's been holding onto to get a temporary boost in poll numbers to defend against a field of still undeclared presidential opponents (let alone a clear nominee) for an election still over a year and a half away, just doesn't make sense.
Now, if Obama was flying around, repelling out of helicopters into press events dressed in night vision goggles and body armor-stuffed spandex suits in front of giant, 2-story banners that read
"UP YOURS, BABY!", then I would be quick to join the criticism.
IOW, like former President Jackass with his giant codpiece, congratulating himself for invading the wrong fking country after he "quit" looking for bin Laden, and not actually even "winning" the war he started for several more years, thousands of lives, and billions/trillions of $. Oops.
Lastly.. Yeah, our spontanteous mob celebrations could use some work in the creativity dept. Frankly I'm impressed no one overturned and set fire to police cars. The "Nah Nah Nah Nah, Hey hey hey, goooooooddbyyeeeeeee!!" chants were cringe-worthy. Most of our repertoire comes from sporting events, not so much the "hey we just assasinated [some asshole]!" variety, so pardon some of the inappropriateness.
We didn't burn anyone's flag, we didn't hit any pictures or statues with shoes or some other dumb stuff. We didn't have a giant riot ala Europe and burn half our town down, or do whatever Aussies would do, provided they ever actually ever won at a sport in which anyone else ever plays. ;)
peace