Hyperion G3 vs. ThunderPower ProPower 45C

[V0RT3X]

Getting some new power for my Revo, need to decide between the two. The Hyperions are 6500mAh and TP's are 5000's. C rating 35C/65C(G3) and 45C/90C(TP).

Price is the same, TP's have a bit lower internal resistance, I guess this is good when braking?

Graphs on both:

Hyp: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1051482

TP: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1095520

Looking at the graphs, TP's should last more cycles? I will try to follow the 80% discharge "rule" and won't always charge at 20A.(when I get my iCharger)

[Marvin]

I've got the Hyperion VX packs at the moment, and like them a lot. However, for 'next seasons set-up' I will be buying the Thunderpower 45C G4 packs. I have used their hard-cased 40C packs in 10th off road, and I'm impressed.

I also have an iCharger 208B. The first was faulty, but Amainhobbies took care of me, paid for shipping etc. This one has charged my 5S 5500mAh Hyperion at 16.5A no problem!

The G4 Thunderpowers are also capable of 6C charging!

[V0RT3X]

Looks like they have some 6500mAh ones in the works. Just gonna wait for dimensions.

[zeropointbug]

Hmm, that is a tough choice to make between the two. The G3's are hard to beat for price/performance/quality wise, but you want the absolute best then the G4's would be the choice then. Personally, I would still get the G3 pack, as I am using a 6s 4200mah VX pack in my Revo and I absolutely love it. Cycle life would be the same most likely, as the internal resistance is the same, although one of the G3's claim to fame is their cycle life, so who knows.

Overall vehicle performance would be higher with the G4's, simply due to the lower weight, and slightly lower resistance.

It is up to you really. If you want a slight performance increase, or a longer runtime, that will be the majority of the difference...

[V0RT3X]

Well, I found out that they have some 6500mAh ones in the works(just need assembly) and they do fit the E-Revo.

The dimensions for 2S pack is 28mm x 44mm x 136mm
The dimensions for 3S pack is 42mm x 44mm x 136mm
The cells are in stock in our Las Vegas warehouse, I will find out tomorrow for the release date (we still have to build them to packs)

A bit of a higher price probably, but I can live with that.

Also getting 2250mAh ones for my mini Revo.

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[Marvin]

Originally Posted by zeropointbug

Cycle life would be the same most likely, as the internal resistance is the same, although one of the G3's claim to fame is their cycle life, so who knows.

Don't know about that, according to the RC-Groups threads, the G4 packs have an internal resistance of 2.4/2.3/2.3, and the G3 has an IR of 2.7/2.5/2.3. The Hyperion was on cycle 9 and the TP was on cycle 6. The IR tends to drop over the first 10 cycles or so, and the TP was still lower.

I reckon that the Thunderpower would last even longer.

It is hard to beat the sheer bang-for-your-buck that you get with the Hyperions though.

[zeropointbug]

Keep in mind cycle life is not merely determined by IR... in fact, it has mostly to do with cell chemistry, and for a given cell chemistry, lower IR will increase cycle life, but is not bound by the IR number. Look at A123 cells for example, they have much higher IR, and they are the longest lasting cells around, by far. In fact, IIRC now, Thunder Power uses cells that have a higher ratio of a certain ingredient in their cells that increase power (lower IR), but sacrifice cycle life of the cell. I don't remember where I read that, however.

Hyperion states a 100 cycle full break in, after that, the IR ceases to decrease any further, and most likely, would slowly increase over time.

Only time will tell though.

[stum]

Were those IR figures pulled from g3 cx packs or vx packs as they are different as well.

[Marvin]

They are 3S 3300mAh VX packs versus 3S 2250mAh G4 packs.

I know cycle life is also to do with cell construction - but IR is the best scientific indication we can go on - since none of us know who actually makes the packs or what the differences are.

[zeropointbug]

Originally Posted by Marvin

I know cycle life is also to do with cell construction - but IR is the best scientific indication we can go on - since none of us know who actually makes the packs or what the differences are.

Well, what is that supposed to mean, it's not scientific if you are ignoring other variables, major one at that. Again, nano-phosphate is much higher resistance (~6 times or more than the best lipo's out now), but they last and last. If they were lower IR, then yes, they would last longer... but again, is the lesser of several variables, namely:

-cell chemistry......ratios of certain additives that can reduce IR, but reduce cycle life
-cell construction.....G3's are made with sub nano construction, which reduce stress on the anode and cathode materials, and thus increase cycle life, and lower IR as well
-cell quality..... the manufacturing facility 'cleanliness' and state of the art-ness is a major factor to cell calendar life in particular, small impurities in layers of the cells can essentially poke their way through the layers of the cell, in turn, shorting out the cell over time, and thus reducing the life of the pack.

The last two points are the major reasons why 'genuine' A123 cells are built to such high standards (identical) and have such high cycle life.

[Marvin]

I'm sorry, that's not what I meant by scientific. I meant measureable and easily comparable. Quality tends to be a normative factor, and I meant when comparing cells of the same type (ie Lipo and Lipo), as I understand that A123 cells are of a different construction to Lipos, and therefore there will be something in their chemistry that allows a greater cycle life.

I was saying that not many of us on here truly knows what goes into the cells that Hyperion or Thunderpower, or anyone else uses. Therefore, we (the consumer) has only four main identifiers of cycle life:

1. Perceived cell quality
2. Cell chemistry, that we can actually tell - at probably the most basic level - so whether it is LiPo, LiFe, LiFePo4 etc.
3. Testing, and comparing performance over a long period of many cycles.
4. IR

I wasn't trying to say that IR was the ONLY way of predicting life cycle, but in the absence of real knowledge about both cells, and the way in which they are constructed, IR helps back the other factors up (quality, and what we know of the cell chemistry).