Nissan Leaf - 100% Electric car

[BrianG]

Supposedly due out late 2010, looks kinda interesting. Unfortunately, there isn't much technical info at the site: http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/index.jsp. But after a little digging around, here are some highlights/comments:

• Uses 90kw/24kwh Lithium Ion batteries.
  
  
• 87mph top speed.
  
  
• 110hp / 210ft-lb torque
  
  
• Can charge via 440v AC (charges to 80% in 30 minutes), 220v AC (4 hour charge), and 110v AC (8 hour charge).
  
  
• 100 mile range in city. Highway mileage in the air right now due to the possible poor aerodynamics for high speeds, and the fact that the motor is more efficient at low speeds. So, I imagine highway mileage will be lower; probably similar to how combustion engine mileage varies, but in reverse.
  
  
• Said to cost ~$3 per charge. So, $3 per 100 miles. Most cars can get around 300 miles on a tank of gas, so that would be $9 per "fillup". Even if that $3 is optimistic, double that value is still pretty decent.
  
  
• Can communicate via cell phone to let the user know charge level. Probably other stuff too, but I don't think I'll enjoy conversing with my car, so this isn't a big deal to me.
  
  
• I don't like the front mounted charge receptacle. Last thing I want to do at the end of a drive is open a little door covered in bug guts when plugging it in. I think they should have put it on one side or the other.
  

[nitrostarter]

Been looking at it since it stated advertising on TV.

Just don't know too many people with 440v connections in the home...

However, 220v should be a breeze, 4 hours doesn't sound bad at all.

I would plug in at the office while at work, sneaky way of not paying for the "fillerup"

[BrianG]

yeah, 440v might be a little tough unless people specifically have their house wired that way. 220v would be much more common; probably 95% more common. Even 110v @ 8 hours isn't bad really.

You could probably get away with charging for "free" at work for now since it won't be very common. If more people get vehicles like this, I can see offices starting to have charging ports outside at parking places; kinda like the old style drive-in movie speakers. Of course, I'm sure they'd find a way to charge you for the convenience.

The naysayers will argue that this isn't really a "green" vehicle since the electricity used to charge it ultimately comes from burning fossil fuels in most cases. But it is more efficient to have one giant "engine" generating the power that to have an engine in each car. Would be easier to control emissions too.

I'm wondering how the cabin will be heated in winter. Electric heat is "expensive" in terms of power requirements, and it HAS to eat into the mileage. Speaking of that, I wonder what the base mileage is for winter vs summer.

Personally, I'd like to see an option for more capacity for people who feel 100 miles is not quite enough. Heck, even a manual bank-switching scheme would work. Even if double the capacity is not feasible (but it does look like there is plenty of room in the trunk), a "reserve" bank would be nice. Kinda like on some larger pickups where you flip a switch to swap between two gas tanks; my old employer had an F-450 (IIRC) box truck that had this.

[zeropointbug]

Neat little car, but the very fact that it has poor aerodynamics, what's with manufacturers and doing this? EV's need every last bit of efficiency gain to make them desirable, and aero's are everything. 110hp and 87mpg top speed just doesn't make any sense, unless it is electronically limited. Also, only 100 miles for 24KWh battery is not that good IMO, unless they gave it a very conservative range, which I can understand, 'you are guaranteed 100 miles in city'. Sorry to be so critical on EV's, but I have so many problems with them, at least the way big manufacturers build them.

Mitsubishi, 5 years ago, came out with an electric Lancer Evo, with 4 wheels motors of 50KW each, and 270hp total. That should get the car moving in a hurry, especially 0-60mph (<4 secs). I haven't seen anything materialize from that though.

[zeropointbug]

Originally Posted by BrianG

The naysayers will argue that this isn't really a "green" vehicle since the electricity used to charge it ultimately comes from burning fossil fuels in most cases. But it is more efficient to have one giant "engine" generating the power that to have an engine in each car. Would be easier to control emissions too.
Exactly right Brian, criticism EV's have always been the 'relocated emissions' tactic, when in reality is FAR cleaner. Clean coal burning power plants are really that good.


I'm wondering how the cabin will be heated in winter. Electric heat is "expensive" in terms of power requirements, and it HAS to eat into the mileage. Speaking of that, I wonder what the base mileage is for winter vs summer.
This is an inherent issue with EV's, and will require maybe a propane heat exchanger. This is what I will be doing with my Toyota truck, as our winters can pretty cold, consistently -20 C, and lows of -35 C.


Personally, I'd like to see an option for more capacity for people who feel 100 miles is not quite enough. Heck, even a manual bank-switching scheme would work. Even if double the capacity is not feasible (but it does look like there is plenty of room in the trunk), a "reserve" bank would be nice. Kinda like on some larger pickups where you flip a switch to swap between two gas tanks; my old employer had an F-450 (IIRC) box truck that had this.
THey usually build an artificial reserve bank into the main pack, just software programming really.

.......

[BrianG]

As far as aerodynamics go, Nissan is probably just trying for something a little sportier to appeal to the younger crowd. Let's face it, 99% of the general market hybrids are not very inspired in the design department. Hatchbacks in general are really bad though; my Mazda 3 hatch can attest to that. You know there are rear vortexes when you see the rear window get spattered instantly with water when the road is just wet (not actively raining). Nissan could probably have squeezed a little better aerodynamics out of the hatchback design by putting some kind of spoiler that channeled at least some air down the back window.

[nitrostarter]

Originally Posted by BrianG

yeah, 440v might be a little tough unless people specifically have their house wired that way. 220v would be much more common; probably 95% more common. Even 110v @ 8 hours isn't bad really.

Yeah, a typical household is home at least 8hours or more at night, not just 8 hours of sleep time.


I'm wondering how the cabin will be heated in winter. Electric heat is "expensive" in terms of power requirements, and it HAS to eat into the mileage. Speaking of that, I wonder what the base mileage is for winter vs summer.

This was my concern and thoughts for every EV that comes out. No more circulating antifreeze. I know a small space heater can eat some power. I'm sure an electric heater would kill the mileage, or maybe thats why they only rate it at 100 miles per charge...
I also wonder about weight of the passengers and cargo and how it affects the mileage rating....

It looks good on paper so far. I do agree that more aerodynamics would help all around tho.

[ClodMaxx]

personally, i'd love an electric commuter car. i just despise the design - i wish there could be a compromise between this and the tesla car.

[PBO]

Thoughts this was a relevant but funny article from a Sydney paper...

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/e...0223-p0gr.html

[BrianG]

EV's use 15,000v? Hmm, I didn't think a 4000s pack would fit, unless they were all cell phone cells. They probably meant current, but that's gotta be peak draw on acceleration. The guy sounds like someone who heard just part of a conversation and is trying to sound smart.

[PBO]

On first read I thought he was referring to rpm!

[magman]

These will be great once they can go 200+ miles before charging

[rawfuls]

Wondering how high the electric bill would be when it comes in...

[Finnster]

hmmm..

Wonder what the cost is?
My Mazda P5 gets ~30mpg, if I assume $2.75/gal, fuel costs for the first 100K mi is ~$8300.

For the Leaf, 1st 100K mi's cost just over $3000, if you assume $3/100mi.

If you never had to replace the batt, and fuel cost stayed same, and repairs were ~ same, it would only save ~$10K over the life of the car. My mazda cost $16K new.
the Leaf needs to come in around Prius prices (mid/low 20's) to have a chance in the market IMO.

[georgec]

You must factor in the cost of the car to get a true bang for the buck! That's where the hybrids fall short and as for "GREEN"