Nitro vs Brushless

[Shark413]

I have just finished my brushless 1/8 buggy (described in another post). I now have two 1/8 scale buggies of the same make, one nitro and one brushless. And now I am wondering which is fastest around the track? Well if the weather holds up I will take both buggies out to the local track and make some timed runs. If everything works out I will post the results. Which one will be faster? You choose..

Specs:

Buggy 1 = Kyosho Inferno 777 SP2
Engine = OS V-Spec .21 VZB with OS 2050 tuned pipe
Wheels/Tires = Kyosho Orange spokes, Proline BT (rear) CF (front)
Futaba FASST rx
Fuel = Sidewinder 30%
Gearing = 46T spur, 13t bell (stock alloy Kyosho shoes and 1.0 springs)
Shocks = CEN 16mm Big Bores with RMV progression med springs.
Brakes = Kyosho special semi metalic pads and precision ground rotors.

Buggy 2 = Kyosho Kanai III
Motor = Feigao 8XL
ESC = MM with fan with remote UBEC
Wheels/Tires = Kyosho Green spokes, Proline CF (front/rear)
Futaba FASST rx
Battery = Maxamps 4s2p 6000 mah
Gearing = 46T spur, 12T pinion
Shocks = CEN 16mm Big Bores with RMV progressive hard springs
Brakes = Mechanical, Craddock fiber rotors.

[What's_nitro?]

Have you driven the BL at all yet? I'd put my money on it so long as you can control the tire spin. 4s+8xl is a powerful setup.

[Shark413]

What's_nitro?, I have been running the BL buggy in different configurations for about 8 months. I think I finally have the setup I was looking for (added mechanical brakes). I took it out last weekend and it performed great. I really can't tell if one or the other is faster. They both feel fast in there own way, so I am kind of wondering myself which is faster. We will see....

[skillx]

I might have missed this is another post or something but any chance we could get a couple close ups of the mech brakes on the BL car?..

[Shark413]

skillx, check out my other post titled "Mechanical Brakes". It's a few post down from this one.

[Shark413]

One other thing, the folks here have allways been very knowledgable, helpful and respectful. Other sites, well .... anyways I just want to say my intention was more of an informal test, I am not recommending one over the other. I have both buggies available so why not see what they can do. I realize that there are so many variables (setup, different technologies, my driving skill, track conditions, etc.) that either buggy could come out on top. I just thought it would be interesting to see (in this particular instance) which buggy was faster.

[JERRY2KONE]

I would think that even if they are very close in speed and handling, that the BL would be a better choice due to the fact that it will excelerate much quicker due to the instant torque from a stand still. As it has been stated on here many times the nitro's have to rev up to get that maxx torque that the BL's have right away. Getting it to hook up on the dirt right away may be the trick though. Still it is cool to have indentical builds that you can compare.

[lutach]

I have only one thing to say about nitro, "It makes me cry a lot".

[jhautz]

I'm interested to see what you find with this.

I have Xray XB8s in both BL and Nitro also. (actually 3 of them, 1 nitro, 1 bl with conventional motor brake setup and, 1 with BL and mechanical brakes and a TeknoRc clutch setup.)

What I found was I was faster with the BL, but I atribute alot of it to my driving style. I have always been an electric guy and tend to try and drive with the smoother throttle style that goes with electric. This doesnt really lend itself to being fast with the nitros. From what I see, typically the fast nitro guys are very harsh with the throttle, almost like an on off switch. They are either full throttle or none at all. I just cant get used to driving like that, so I find myself to be more sucessful getting round the track clean and as fast as I can with the BL. Like you I prefer the mechanical brakes on the BL though. So soon I will be braking down the 2 BL XB8s and taking the Mechanical brakes from the clutched version and putiing it on the conventional pinion drive buggy and making what I think will be the best setup for my preferences.

Please do update this once you have driven them back to back. I actually find that it takes me 5-10 minutes of driving to actually get the mental adjustment down when going from nitro to BL or Bl to nitro on the track.

Please take all of this with a grain of salt folks. I am by no means what I would consider a fast/good driver. Not an even an a-main guy at the local track. (But getting better all the time ) This is all my opinion and what fits my driving style.

[Shark413]

jhautz, I agree with your statement regarding driving style. Nitro requires more on/off style as you stated because of the spool up required by the nitro engine/clutch, it doesn't deliver optimum hp/torque until it gets into a specific rpm range (high). Nitro requires more blipping of the throttle to keep the rpm's up. Electric on the other hand has almost instant torque and requires a much smoother throttle. Nitro engagment is more muted, because of the spool up required to reach the right rpm, and the clutch slippage. Electric has no delay and feels more powerful and can lead to excess wheel spin if not controlled. The electric buggy is heavier, because of the battery and the suspension, and has to be setup differently to account for that. In my experince they require totally different driving styles. This translates into different lines, brake points, etc.

[jhautz]

I agree whith what you just said except for the fact that the electric buggy is heavier. Mine are very close to the nitro weight within a couple onces RTR. So the weight really isnt the issue, but the balance of the buggy is certainly a little different requiring a different suspension setup to be effective.

[Shark413]

jhautz, that is very interesting regarding the weight. Without a battery both my buggies weight almost the same. But the 4s2p 6000mah lipo weights 590grams and that makes it heavier. I admit I have a really heavy duty battery tray and motor mount and probably could have saved a few grams, but not enough to make up for the 590gr battery. I am going to weight the individual parts and compare them (nitro motor vs brushless motor, radio box/fuel tank vs battery tray/ESC, etc.). I always assumed the nitro gear removed (engine, bell, fuel tank, radio box, pipe, etc.) offset the brushless stuff added (motor, mount, battery tray, ESC) with the only exception being the lipo battery weight.

[jhautz]

2 sugestions...

less aluminum

more CF






My truggy is actually almost a half pound lighter than it was in nitro form.

[lutach]

My CF truggy weighs 5-6 pounds depending which battery I use.

[supralover72]

Nice buggies. I don't really think you can compare the two though, since it's pretty much all driving style and tuning. For example, instant torque for electric, but smooth trigger finger, but heavier center diff oil, but faster rotation, but easier to correct, and vice versa for nitro.

Plus, the nitro's balance will change as there is less fuel, and when it gets leaner it will go faster, so it's not very consistent.