Need a propper motor for my SC10

[JoFreak]

Hi guys,
I need your advice. Not just any RC forums advice, but RC-Monster style!

I'm sick of my 6 min roar/efra tincans (LRP X11 & X12) needing a 15 minute cool down after I put one battery through it

So what am I looking for?
Something propper, no china cracker, nothing too big/heavy or too expensive either.
I'd like to get something in the 3300kV range.
4-pole rotor.
But no over the top crazy power house.
36mm diameter, ~50mm length.
Would like to get a Neu 1409 1Y or something a bit shorter.
I'd absolutely love to get a Plettenberg Extreme, but it's about 4700kV, so a bit too much. Or could I just put a smaller pinion on there?
But they both are a bit on the expensive side. So is a Lehner 1920.
Anyone has experience with the Lehner Basic XL motors?

Also considered Castle's 1410 1Y 3800kV motor. A bit big and powerfull for that little truck though.

Hope you see my dilemma here.
Appreciate everything you guys will eventualy come up with.

I have a CM36 4600kv in mine and its great. It stays cool unless and makes heaps of power. If you really want 4 pole the CC 1410 (about $100) or a real 1409 ($159) would be the way to go. Yea its gonna be overpowered, but its better to have more power then you need rather than not have enough. Just my 2 cents.

[_paralyzed_]

none of the other motors mentioned are 4 pole. The 1410 is your best bet. With a matching Castle Creations speed control you can adjust it to not seem overpowered.

The lehner basic xl motors are fantastic motors, but they are 2 pole. A lehner basic xl would also be an excellent choice.

[rootar]

better question, what are you doing with it? racing? bashing? both? I run/have run a tekin 8.5 and tekin 10.5 in my sc10 with both a Tekin rs and a Mamba max pro. Both had PLENTY of power to break cvds, outdrives, and anything else. None of the setups ever required a cool down period I used to give my girlfriend the radio and 4 batteries and she would run them all dead, one after another. (she is actually a pretty good driver) It would come back after an hour and a half of continous running and only be at 120-130 on the motor and the same for the esc.

another thing is you can always toss in a 13mm rotor in the tekins for a nice boost in torque and a larger range for gearing.

[E-Revonut]

gearing is the issue with any roar motor. Don't over gear it and you ca run all day!

[JoFreak]

Originally Posted by traxxasbasher13

...or a real 1409 ($159)

If only it was 159$.
Try adding 30-35$ shipping and another 20% fees and taxes.

Originally Posted by _paralyzed_

none of the other motors mentioned are 4 pole.

Well, apart from the Lehner XL (1920 was excluded from the start because of it's price tag) every other motor is 4-Pole.
Lehner would be the only exception for a 2 pole motor.
The Plettenberg Extreme is from the HP220 line of motors and according to the Plettenberg website all HP220 are 6 or 4 pole motors.
The Neu 1409 and the CC 1410 are both 4 pole as well.

Originally Posted by _paralyzed_

The 1410 is your best bet. With a matching Castle Creations speed control you can adjust it to not seem overpowered.

Castle ESCs are great, but not what I want in my 1/10th 2WD cars.
If I should start driving in competition (which is my goal) I need to use those efra cans and a sensored ESC. That leaves only the MMP.
That won't fit behind the battery in my SC10, I don't trust the BEC and an external BEC is out of the question in my 2WDs for several reasons.
Apart from that I want both my 2WDs to have the same ESC.
And there is no way I can fit that huge MMP into an Associated B4.
So at the moment I'm thinking Tekin RS Pro?
Don't know yet if it's able to handle 4 pole motors, but I guess it does.

Originally Posted by _paralyzed_

The lehner basic xl motors are fantastic motors, but they are 2 pole. A lehner basic xl would also be an excellent choice.

Good to hear, will keep that in mind.

Originally Posted by rootar

better question, what are you doing with it? racing?

That's the goal. For now it's practice, practice and more practice.
So I need to be able to get serious runtime without having to worry about my motor catching fire all the time.

Originally Posted by rootar

I run/have run a tekin 8.5 and tekin 10.5 in my sc10 with both a Tekin rs and a Mamba max pro. ... None of the setups ever required a cool down period ... It would come back after an hour and a half of continous running and only be at 120-130 on the motor and the same for the esc.

Sounds great, but I just can't imagine it. I mean, the Tekin Redlines are built similar to all the other roar/efra cans. So how is it possible that, after over an hour, it is ~86°F cooler than all the motors I tried (Speedpassion competition V3 13,5T, Hacker E40 13,5T, LRP X11 10,5T, LRP X12 13,5T) after ~20 minutes?

Originally Posted by rootar

another thing is you can always toss in a 13mm rotor in the tekins for a nice boost in torque and a larger range for gearing.

This sounds like something to keep in mind if I should eventually need to get a Redline for racing. Does that bigger rotor really make such a big, noticeable difference?

Originally Posted by E-Revonut

Gearing is the issue with any roar motor. Don't over gear it and you can run all day!

Well, shure, but I'd need all day to get arround the track as well.
Nah seriously, if it get's any slower then the X11 10.5T geared as is, I might as well stay at home, because it would bore me to death not being able to keep up with any one else.


To further clarify:
I want that motor for track practice and fun races that don't regulate what motor I can use. I'll get a roar/efra motor to use if required.

Thank's for your ideas so far, keep 'em coming
I also found this motor:
IN-RACING Afterburner 3650 - 3300 RD 3
Definately looks good on paper. Apart from the low recommended temperature of 60°C.
They used to sell rebadged Medusa motors. Don't know if they still do with Medusa being out of business. So no idea what that motor could be.

[rootar]

quit buying 13.5s and get a motor that your not maxing out. Ive yet to run on a track were i felt i needed more motor than an 8.5 at the speeds and power the 8.5 is capable of you just dont have the traction to need anything faster.

gear it 21/76 with a tekin 8.5 on an rs in sensored only mode. toss in about 25 on the timing from 5400rpm-35,000 and turn the boost off. This setup is fast and runs great. again i can run mine pack after pack.


or if you want a MMP does fit in a B4 (pull the fan off, it doesnt need it) and just run a cap plugged into one of the extra slots in you Rx, no need for an external bec in a 10th.

run it in smartsense and time it alittle. the tekin motor like timing, just dont go over the top without being conseince of your gearing.





Another thing to think is that it might be your truck and improper gearing, setup, or build that is causing the problems. A nice smooth free drivetrain, and well maintained truck are important. Also gear mesh can cause ALOT of heat troubles. I'm jsut throwing these things out there because its not a fair comparison of electronics unless the truck is built, geared, and setup properly.

[rootar]

Originally Posted by JoFreak

Well, shure, but I'd need all day to get arround the track as well.
Nah seriously, if it get's any slower then the X11 10.5T geared as is, I might as well stay at home, because it would bore me to death not being able to keep up with any one else.

post your gearing setup, track size, conditions, batteries used, etc... I know we can figure this out for you. honestly if you think a 10.5 is slower than everyone else then you could be undergeared (also causes hot motors)

[E-Revonut]

For the record a mmp fits in a b4.1 with the fan if you place it on the left side next to the battery

[rootar]

cool, i dont run the fan on any of my MMP escs, 2wd 4wd, crawler, scaler, w/e dont see the need.

[E-Revonut]

Probably isn't much need for the fan but I also have no need to remove the fan

[JoFreak]

Originally Posted by rootar

quit buying 13.5s and get a motor that your not maxing out.

Haha, well...
The speedpassion 13.5T I got used and it let the magic smoke out after it went up and down the street for 5 times. Maybe it allready had a condition, hell if I know.
The Hacker 13.5T was great, but I overgeared it like crazy once, neglected the possible rise in temperature. Again, the magic smoke went out, that one was on me.
The LRP X12 13.5T runs good, but could be a tad faster.
So, those three I got when 13.5T still was somehow the unwritten law for 2WD SCs around here.

Then I got the LRP X11 10.5T for that bit more in power I wanted from the X12 13.5T.
What I got though was a motor that runs even hotter than the X12, is hardly any faster, but has catastrophicly bad braking power.

Originally Posted by rootar

Another thing to think is that it might be your truck and improper gearing, setup, or build that is causing the problems. A nice smooth free drivetrain, and well maintained truck are important. Also gear mesh can cause ALOT of heat troubles. I'm jsut throwing these things out there because its not a fair comparison of electronics unless the truck is built, geared, and setup properly.

I run the X12 with the same gearing the more experienced drivers around here run it, and I get the same temps after a run as they do.
So I'd say gearing is correct and the truck is set up propperly.
I mean, the temps seem to be right where they should be for a competition setup. But apparently that's just not the right thing for me, yet. Hopefully "yet" that is

Originally Posted by rootar

post your gearing setup, track size, conditions, batteries used, etc... I know we can figure this out for you. honestly if you think a 10.5 is slower than everyone else then you could be undergeared (also causes hot motors)

The 10.5T isn't slower than everything else, it can almost keep up with a buddies LRP Eraser 9.5T (unknown gearing). I just said it would be if I geared down any further.
So I can't imagine it to be undergeared.
Gearing is: 22T pinion and 84T spur
Track size: don't know, 1/10th scale, nothing too big, long straight 20-30 meters I'd guess, tight infield, at least tight enough to challenge my skills to lots of off-power steering.
Conditions: mostly high grip carpet at the moment, but will vary. Artificial grass and clay may occur from time to time. Always dry.
Batteries: Have been running old, worn out 30/60C 5000mAh SLS. But I recently got some new 5000mAh 40/80C Gens ace in and am using those now. The temperature problem got worse with those. Most likely because they last 5 to 10 minutes longer than the old SLS and have punch till the LVC instead of only half way through the pack.

[rootar]

just becasue something is a "competition" setup does not mean it has to run at an elevated temp. On a tight high traction track (90 foot straight away and tight infield) I run my 8.5 geared 20/84. Again i could run it pack after pack for hours and i DID. Maybe you should try a tekin redline instead of the LRP. The tekins have a great resale value so it would not cost you much if anything to try one out.

[JoFreak]

To keep this up to date, I bought an RS Pro 2 days ago (waiting for it to get here) and I put my Nosram ESC up for sale.
As for the motor, I think I'll stick to my initial plan and get a 4-pole motor.
Sorry rootar, thank's for all the effort you put in here, but even if there are 4 million 8.5T Redlines working flawlessly in SC10s all arround the world. I will be the one having issues.
So at the moment I lean towards a Leopard LBP3650-B/4D.
Still an alternative is the IN-RACING Afterburner 3650 - 3300 RD 3.

[x-y]

the 3650 is good ..... but if you use the 3660 will have more power and lower temperatures ;)

http://www.rc-fans88.com/details.asp?prodid=2221