Building a better wheelchair!

[TDC57]

The soon to be next best seller in the continuing sago of (step by step / how too) builds by TDC Inc.

Seriously thou I’ve got quite of few hours invested in the following information and really didn’t want to present it to you until I had all the pieces together. So here goes nothing!

For personnel reasons I’ve got / have had this overwhelming urge for a few weeks now to start building a few prototype wheelchairs and just see what happens. Well after many hours searching the web I discovered that DAM (there is NOT one BATTLE Wheelchair! ) and that these things are extremely expensive! WTF?? Why?? What am I missing here?? So being the creative minded individual that I think I am I sat down, drew-up and laid out plans for a (More Power for less buck) TDC special all terrain wheelchair. (FYI) Yes I’ll probably end up adding a smoke system to it for kicks, but I don’t know if a fully auto paint gun is really required? Although I could easily build in a airsoft / paint grenade launcher for clearing the curb..

I want to start out building two! (children and adults) out of all bike parts (with the exception of the seat) I'm thinking about going to the salvation army store and spending some money on a few spare bikes (I really just need the frames), cutting them up and seeing if I can build a 3rd world off-road / all terrain wheel chair for like under $200.00 the goal is $100.00 per chair..(They are selling for 400 and up now) http://www.improvelife.com/Sale/Fold...ht-Wheelchairs

I really believe this can be achieved and would like to think that it would really help out the greater good of humanity at the same time, plus it should help fill in the void while I'm looking for a new job in 09 LOL.LOL..


Here are few examples of what I found and what my initial thoughts were / still are today..

Here is all purpose one for $3200.00 I can build this for under $500.00 TOPS.. http://www.cwimedical.com/landeez.html?=froogle

I also discovered that they have Beach / snow one too (who knew) they are made out of all PVC, but then again they start out @ $1,000.00 WHAT?? I can build it for under $200 I think..
http://www.medicalproductsunlimited....FRxNagod41C1jQ

The basic electrical ones I was looking @ start around $5,000.00 no frill what so ever.. very disappointing..


Here is the $10,000 model: OMG no way!..
http://www.planetmobility.com/store/...ier/index.html


The 4x4 one I saw start out at $16,000.00 OMG no way!.. $4000 dollars tops to make. http://www.planetmobility.com/store/...til/index.html


I'm telling you something is defiantly wrong here people! I think I can build it cheaper and whole lot cooler than what I seen during my research

Hell this thing is $2300 http://www.allegromedical.com/wheelc...tm_medium=feed WHAT!!!?? Your kidding rite??.


So with the above said this is what I'm looking for / from the team!:
Maybe you know someone who is physically challenged if so can you please pass along this survey and have them post or email me back..

Wheelchair survey.doc (took FOREVER to do this dam doc)..

Also any ideas on who I need / can talk to about if there really is the need for cheaper chairs, a faster chair, Do I call / contact United way, Unicef, etc.. (any thoughts)..


(For What it’s worth)
I'm going to start out easy (complete the proto types) for the All-terrain and beach / recreational one first, then if I still have the drive and passion I’ll move on building an electrical one. Don’t get me wrong I'm still planning on a sensational 09 build but this is for a more personnel self fulfilling reason. Free time multi tasking so to speak.. LOL.LOL..

One other benefit of me is after searching the net I only found a few sites on how to build a wheelchair and they were all completely worthless. So when I get done with posting my How to build thread it will be one for worthy of Google…


Thank you all for your time and have a week everybody.. I’ll keep you all posted as progress is made..

Thanks again Guys… YOU GUYS / RCM TEAM - FAMILY MEMBERS ROCK!!!

Shaun.

P.S.
(Builder Note)
During my discussion over the last few weeks with my Dad and other about this project, it was brought to my attention that if I can pull this off, what a great legacy to leave my kids with knowing that in some small part their DAD helped out other. (This made me feel real god) and I plan on using this as motivation during the project..

P.S.S.
FEEDBACK! Please provide me with your feed back, what am I doing wrong, what have I missed / have not thought of yet, etc..

[_paralyzed_]

For some reason this appeals to me? When we discuss wheelchairs what it comes down to is mobility. A wheelchair literally becomes the legs for the user, and believe me, I guard my chair as if it were part of me. Facing the world with impaired mobility is tiring, it is constant and affects every aspect of life. The intelligence and ingenuity of the people on this site can definitely be used for the greater good, and I am asking that everyone do what they can to contribute.

My wheelchair is a dual brushed motor model ran by two 12v sealed gel lead acid batteries. It runs at 24v and puts out a total of about 900 watts total. There is a gearbox directly attched to the motor with a 7.5 mph top speed. It is a fairly simple steel and aluminum frame. There is some kind of speed control (Obviously) and a controller(joystick). The joystick is the only thing that I can see being expensive. The wheelchair cost $15,000. Do you guys think you could build one cheaper?

[Gee]

Nice thinking Shaun. I will have to take some time to finish going through your links. I just had to say...


Holy shit! $15,000. It may be I just lack the understanding of it but isn't that highway robbery? Why does it cost so much or is it just because the great old USA sucks in this area?

The obscene price of the chairs is typical greed. Often times insurance companies will cover or partially subsidize the cost of a chair. The manufacturers know this and have stupid amounts of markup. There is no way a chair cost anywhere near $15,000 to build. I'm guessing 6-7k overhead included and the rest is profit margin.

On the business side though, these chairs with a sticker price of over 10 are very low volume and they need ridiculous markup to maintain total company profitability. It seems it is a bit skewed though. It would be great to see feature rich chairs come down in price, making them more available to the chair using community.

Shaun, you are an incredibly creative person, this is a wonderful idea putting your creativity to good use. I wish I still live in so cal (i grew up in Laguna Beach). I'd love top come lend a hand with the building.

[BL_RV0]

Shaun, I have about 8 bikes of all sized you could have if you want them. You just have to come and get them.

[TexasSP]

I would start with a 6061 aluminum frame (not 7075 as it is extremely difficult to weld) as it would be light and strong. Carbon would be nice too but would add a lot of expense and is more difficult to work with. I would also think cushioning would be a major issue as people spend all day in these chairs so some nice advanced memory foam would be in order. It also seems to me updating to lipo's and a good brushless motor would be in order. I think one or two of the hobby city large outrunners linked below would be good as well.

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5139&Product_Name=HXT_80-100-A_180Kv_Brushless_Outrunner_(eq:_70-55)

I would guess that chain drive would be optimal for this as well.

Let us know what you need and I will do what I can to help.

[suicideneil]

Strange..

New 1:1 small city car in the UK = $10-20,000.

Wheel chair powered by a couple glorified windscrean wiper drive units = $15,000.

Something is very wrong with a world that preys on the vunerable who have no choice but to pay up or be confined to their homes.

The electronics side of things seems simple enough- couple of big outrunners+ BL escs and and servo controller unit with channel mixing abilites for tank steering; I've seen all the parts needed to make a super cool wheel chair and it dont cost $15 grand, not even close- profit margins must be insane.

[Arct1k]

You do have to remember that the wheelchair is probably custom made and the car is cranked out on an assembly line in estonia with parts from china...

At $40/hour plus overheads the costs start to add up...

[bruce750i]

Very noble project. Shawn your document link does not work, but whats new I think DickyT is right about the insurance mark-up. Look at any medical products for that matter, way over priced for anyone not running it threw insurance. It's crazy my sons power wheelchair was like $15,000 but the insurance was billed $25,000??, you could buy a car for that much.

[_paralyzed_]

The insurane has a lot to do with the price, so does the liability. Cushioning for the chair is a whole other ball of worms, it's better to have a flat base in standardized sizes to accept available cushions. Standards are in two inch increments, for example, I am in an 18x20 cushion, a very common size is the 16x16. My cushion cost $500. It has a gel lining and foam and a neoprene cover. It could definitely be made cheaper, but let's get the chair first!

[jayjay283]

Cool Shaun, good stuff, maybe a new career ! I have a friend who is paraplegic, he has a yellow sport model wheel chair with a low back nd sort of bmx bike tires. Thing cost $9000. As para said its insurance, like paying $10 for an aspirin. Gotta love American health care... Need any help just ask

Originally Posted by _paralyzed_

For some reason this appeals to me? When we discuss wheelchairs what it comes down to is mobility. A wheelchair literally becomes the legs for the user, and believe me, I guard my chair as if it were part of me. Facing the world with impaired mobility is tiring, it is constant and affects every aspect of life. The intelligence and ingenuity of the people on this site can definitely be used for the greater good, and I am asking that everyone do what they can to contribute.

Paralyzed, u hit the nail on the head with that one, life without a chair would be un-imagineable and u tend to protect them with your life.
[/QUOTE]My wheelchair is a dual brushed motor model ran by two 12v sealed gel lead acid batteries. It runs at 24v and puts out a total of about 900 watts total. There is a gearbox directly attched to the motor with a 7.5 mph top speed. It is a fairly simple steel and aluminum frame. There is some kind of speed control (Obviously) and a controller(joystick). The joystick is the only thing that I can see being expensive. The wheelchair cost $15,000. Do you guys think you could build one cheaper?[/QUOTE]
That sounds about like my chair, what brand is yours?, mine is a permobil.

Originally Posted by TexasSP

I would start with a 6061 aluminum frame (not 7075 as it is extremely difficult to weld) as it would be light and strong. Carbon would be nice too but would add a lot of expense and is more difficult to work with. I would also think cushioning would be a major issue as people spend all day in these chairs so some nice advanced memory foam would be in order. It also seems to me updating to lipo's and a good brushless motor would be in order. I think one or two of the hobby city large outrunners linked below would be good as well.

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5139&Product_Name=HXT_80-100-A_180Kv_Brushless_Outrunner_(eq:_70-55)

I would guess that chain drive would be optimal for this as well.

Let us know what you need and I will do what I can to help.

Originally Posted by _paralyzed_

The insurane has a lot to do with the price, so does the liability. Cushioning for the chair is a whole other ball of worms, it's better to have a flat base in standardized sizes to accept available cushions. Standards are in two inch increments, for example, I am in an 18x20 cushion, a very common size is the 16x16. My cushion cost $500. It has a gel lining and foam and a neoprene cover. It could definitely be made cheaper, but let's get the chair first!

I had a cushion made of gel and foam, but i was getting pressure sores, so i went to a complete foam one. There is an adjustable air cushion out, but u have to take pics of the sore, then it has to be a really, really bad sore for insurance to even think about buying it and i didn't just have $1500 just laying around to buy it with.

[kulangflow]

Even my son's non-electric wheelchair was $7000.



This is a great project! My boy will always need a wheelchair and he's probably going to end up bigger than me with the need of an electric version, so what you're doing could be a huge benefit to my family as well as countless others.

Did you already see this all terrain wheelchair with tracks?

Here's a video of it in the snow and another video in the water.

[TDC57]

WOW thanks guys really I didn’t know what to expect!. You guys are all such givers.. Thank YOU!..

BL-RVO
YES I’ll be happy to get the bikes, but please make sure you DAD is OK with it first.. Thanks Sir and can I pick them up tomorrow ??

TexasSP..
Thanks for the linc.. I like the motor and will review it once I get to that point..
Thanks sir..


Bruce750I
Sorry about I’ve attached the survey doc as my last post to this update: I really need to learn how to hyper linc things… any suggestions team.. (thanks).. And Bruce! If you could possible help with pictures and dimensions of your son’s chair that would be cool too..

Kulanflow..
Can you PLEASE do the following when you have the time / opportunity!?..
I could really use pictures of your sons wheel chair, the connections, the adjustments and what adjustments is has comes with, how the wheel are attached (front and back), the Arm rest please get the connections at the frame and under the pad. In general I could really use some help / a better understanding of what I need to do in order to provide both comfort and reality. Also some basic height measurements would be nice to.. What is the width “wheel to wheel”, how high is the seat off the ground, how high is the armrest off the seat and how big the seat is.. Please note (No metric measurements please)

Thanks Sir.. Big time thank you!..

[TDC57]

How do i post up my survey doc?? do i send it to photobucket first and attach the a code or what?? it's in a word doc layout and i really want to get it up so any and all help is deeply appreciated..