Kinetic/Ballistic Systems

[NovakTwo]

Here is the press release for our upcoming Kinetic/Ballistic racing systems:

Energy in Motion

[lutach]

Nice to finally see Novak with new technology. Now, enough with the 540A rating. You guys should be the leader and start educating people. Do this, people like datasheet spec and there's a rating there which you can follow. Lets say you have 6 FETs per phase in a H bridge configuration that means 3 FETs should be calculated to get a AMP rating. Now if the FETs you're using has a Continuous Drain Current (TA) (ST Micro don't seem to use it), but lets use the 38A rating of the stk38n3llh5, that would give you a 114A rating and we all know the ESC can't dissipate that much heat. Use that as the maximum continuous burst, meaning it'll give that AMP rating everything one slams on the throttle. If it's marketing for the uneducated cool, but I really like honest looking specs and that's why Tekin and Castle gets my money. There are worst out there so you're not alone. To be honest, I would basically like something that can do 40A+ average throughout a race than anything and incase the sensor plug comes off, I would like to keep on going in sensorless mode instead of doing nothing.

[Finnster]

540A is pretty silly when the lowest turn motor is only rated at 85A. Hard to take things serious w/ specs like that.

G/L anyways. Whats the price?

[lincpimp]

Interesting, race tech I guess. This stuff always makes me laugh, 2s max, motors rated by turns (not really the best way to rate a motor, unless they all use the identical construction, and then there is no benefit one brand from another), and other "spec" racing features.

The 540amp rating is funny too.

[JThiessen]

Yeah, this is kinda the wrong forum to get any excitement out of these - unless its a precursor to what might be coming to replace the HV system.

[What's_nitro?]

Originally Posted by lincpimp

The 540amp rating is funny too.

Hey Linc, now you have another ESC option for that dual 1527 GST you're building...

In all seriousness I like Novak's stuff. I had a HV4400 in my Rustler years ago and it was sweet. Really the only thing I could do without is that ridicuous current rating. Please?

[NovakTwo]

Tough crowd here.......

[lutach]

Originally Posted by NovakTwo

Tough crowd here.......

Not being tough at all NovakTwo. Just like to be realistic and since Novak wants to be considered the leader in the Hobby, Novak should start setting some examples. This ratings game is over. This ESC probably has 18 FETs total correct? If so my calculation should be correct if you guys use the best ST Micro MOSFET or maybe you guys use some other PolarPAK style MOSFET from Vishay? The Vishay SiE874DF which is a 20V MOSFET has a TA rating of 52A at 25C degrees and if I use my calculation that should be a 156A rating, but we all know this little devices will never be able to dissipate so much heat if one actually sees 100A+ average. I would like to see some real world specs you know.

How do you guys come up with your ratings? Do you multiply 18 MOSFETs with 30A? If that's the way, I'm sorry to say it, but it's wrong. If you like to go with a 30A MOSFET then the max cont. burst should only be limited to 90A, but for a very short instant one can actually see a higher number depending on the voltage, motor, gearing, vehicle weight, rolling resistance, traction, tire size, aerodynamics and .....(Did I miss anything).

[NovakTwo]

C & P from the press release:

540 Amps @ 25°C trans. temp. (brushless),

1,620 Amps @ 25°C trans. temp. (brushed)

Transistor's rating at 25 C junction temp for brushless escs, specification is per each phase of brushless motor (3)

[snellemin]

Good to see PC programmability. Is this ESC marketed towards the 1s-2s limit only? And does it support sensorless yet?

[BrianG]

Novak, I don't people are trying to kick you in the jewels, it's just that some here are quite technical and know that 540A is a pretty tall order. Sure, it looks nice on the adverts, but many people "in the know" might see that as deliberately misleading the customer. And, in business, if people think you are trying to mislead them, it could reduce credibility. Perception might as well be fact.

Like Lutach said, these controllers are H bridge config which means that the current rating should be 1/6 of the current of all FETs lumped together. I am glad that you do specify the temperature, but for future reference, it may be better to rate them according to their normal operating temps. I don't know about you, but I highly doubt the FETs in any system are operating at 77*F unless being run on a cold winter day lol.

Anyway, thanks for the heads up on the new product line.

[JERRY2KONE]

Great feedback guys. I am sure he never expected that when he posted up in here. Like stated Novaktwo there are a lot of guys on this forum who know their stuff when it comes to electronics/ESC's from R/C experiences and also techinical training. This is why we are all in here, to learn from the guys who konw what the real deal is. So considering what has been said so far what kind of feedback do you have for us to learn from about this new gear that you are so proudly marketing??? What can it really do??

[NovakTwo]

If you have specific questions about the Kinetic, post them here and I will have Bob prepare responses.

I am not part of the Engineering/Technical group so I forward all tech questions to folks who have the answers.

Bob is flying home from iHobby, as I type

Originally Posted by JERRY2KONE

Great feedback guys. I am sure he never expected that when he posted up in here. Like stated Novaktwo there are a lot of guys on this forum who know their stuff when it comes to electronics/ESC's from R/C experiences and also techinical training. This is why we are all in here, to learn from the guys who konw what the real deal is. So considering what has been said so far what kind of feedback do you have for us to learn from about this new gear that you are so proudly marketing??? What can it really do??

[BrianG]

Novak, I totally understand your predicament. Many companies are, shall we say, "optimistic" in the their ratings. So, Joe Sixpack looks at two ESCs and brand A looks better on paper because it is rated 1000A. Of course, he doesn't realize that the claim is ridiculous, nor the fact that no motor will pull that kind of current on a regular basis (aside from instantaneous bursts) in a normal setup, not to mention 1000A is beyond the capabilities of just about any normal battery. As I'm sure you are aware, there are many other factors that affect current rating aside from pure FET specs: circuit design, amount of copper, wiring, heatsink area, etc.

Honestly, and no offense here, I think a certain company has the right idea when they rate their controllers as "more than you can handle". As long as the ESC can handle any motor in its class and is used properly (no s-size 6000kv motors running 2s in an 8th scale truggy), it will run fine.

Also, I'm surprised no idiot has tried pulling that 540A on a test bench to see what it would do. I'm pretty sure that would result in a melted controller and an attempted suit for false advertising. Again, I am not dogging on you, just trying to watch out for one of the few US companies.

[NovakTwo]

In the arena of car racing for which we have designed controllers, both brush and sensored brushless, I have never seen, (or read about on forums), any interest in current rating specs.

If anything, about the only spec racers have ever been particularly interested in is on resistance. I'm just speculating here, but maybe these current rating specs have been valued and emphasized more in controllers for air models or non sensored controllers. Especially a few years ago, when European/Asian esc mfgs started re-purposing their airplane controllers for surface vehicles.

Personally, I would be just as content if we deleted all these numbers in our esc spec chart. If the rated/braking current numbers were once meaningful, they no longer are. Years ago, when we began listing only the MOSFET stats, it was because our engineers could never figure out how other companies' garbage ratings were measured; so we selected this alternative method.