Which is faster brake or roll in? - RC-Monster Forums

superek4 · 08:48 AM

Hi, I have been racing Off road for a year already on my CRT, roll in corners mainly, but since I have a good challenger who throttle hard & brake hard. I have problem catching up or winning.

I tried his truck on tekno conversion, I find the brakes great! very different from motor brakes but I dun wish to have clutch maintence.

I am using slip diff by rcm btw.

So whichs faster? Roll in or brake hard?

wallot · 12.04.2009, 08:52 AM

brake. with good brakes you can brake very late, turn and punch it. thats how i drive my mugen and it works very well :)

brushlessboy16 · 12.04.2009, 08:59 AM

Braking, you can stay on power longer into the corner, hit the brakes and then slow down enough to make the corner.

superek4 · 12.04.2009, 09:25 AM

Problem is when I brake my rear lift up even when I set my brake low. My track is loamy so when I punch out I skid ESP when I drive my buggy.

My track is not smooth it's rough n bumpy with grass & stones.

Lauri · 09:35 AM

It depends on many things. In my opinion its up to how your car turns off power. That depends on the setup and also track (surface, tracktion).

When I drove truggy (XT8) I always made it oversteer a bit and have a lot of turning onpower. We didn't have high grip tracks so it made sense! I braked to make the car slide and drift and went through corners like that. I did try to setup the car for brake-turn-accelerate but laptimes were worse. I couldn't make it turn enough offpower.

What makes a big difference in cornering style: brake balance, diff oils, brake amount, overall setup of the car, tires (for an example crimefighters have more sideways grip than bowties).

What I discovered the hard way - you can't be inbetween two driving styles - when you can't powerslide and offpower the car doesn't turn either. Its a nightmare.

On certain tracks you could be faster with a car that tends to drift a bit and oversteer. Mostly on low grip tracks.

Then again we had a track with alot of carpet on it. It had very good grip. On that track I won the race mostly because of the brakes and how my car handled under braking. I had perfect brake balance and brakes set to just right amount. I limited the weight transfer so rear didn't loose grip (on braking the rear lifts and sometimes you might spin because of that). It was 100% point-and-shoot aka brake-turn-accelerate. And on those turns with carpet there was no problem with understeering either, you had too much steering! Others didn't focuse on the braking and there the laptimes were made!

Overall I think the point-and-shoot style IS better. And it is easier to overtake driving like that also. Overtaking with a "drifting" car is a bit lottery ;) With point-and-shoot you just go inside "force" the other guy drive longer trajectory - just like with real cars. My problem with point-and-shoot is that I'm used to brake into corners a lot (brake and turn while still braking). But I just have to adjust my driving when needed.

So if you wanna try point-and-shoot then make big changes to the car. Try to find the grip and never try to slide the car. You can't go half way!

Sorry for my language but maybe I did manage to make my point ;)

BTW - drive with Virtual RC ( www.virtualrc.com ). Yes, its nitro onroad but you'll be surprised how much it helps for offroad also. In the end its up to the driver ;)

superek4 · 12.04.2009, 10:44 AM

thx for the explaination. so how to make d rear stop lifting up when braking?

wallot · 12.04.2009, 10:45 AM

more rear brake. had the same problem on my nitro buggy if breaking really hard after long straight

superek4 · 12.04.2009, 10:54 AM

How to do more rear brake with motor brake?

wallot · 12.04.2009, 12:14 PM

oh, I thought u have mechanical brakes.
be smooth on the brakes
try high downforce wing unless u already have it.

what is your diff and shock setup?
what about ride height? - lowering rear should help however it will affect your steering

BrianG · 12.04.2009, 12:45 PM

I would think a softer rear end suspension would help too. Make it so you have about 1/3 squat when stationary so that when the rear does want to come up, the tires will still be on the ground somewhat.

Lauri · 12.04.2009, 01:40 PM

Limiting droop is a tricky thing for offroad because usually you wanto to run maximum arm movement. But it might work for you - it limits the weight transfer also.

Be sure to check out the Xray offroad setup book. You'll find how to limit the weight transfer also from there. http://www.teamxray.com/teamxray/pro...p?prod_id=3346 (third from top)

superek4 · 12.05.2009, 05:40 AM

My diff is 7k-10k(slip diff)-2k n suspension oil is front 60 rear 50.

Do I play with brake EPA? Or drag brake will that help?

Lauri · 07:06 AM

Braking without brakes isn't easy ;) I've only ran electric 1:8 for two times so I haven't tested the setup too much. It worked for me, felt nice and because I run with little brakes then didn't have any problems. I think you just have to adapt your driving to the car, especially with the brakes.

Anyway... what are you trying to achive with more rear brakes?

Check the XRAY Offroad setup book. You'll find many hings you can change...

superek4 · 12.05.2009, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lauri

Braking without brakes isn't easy ;) I've only ran electric 1:8 for two times so I haven't tested the setup too much. It worked for me, felt nice and because I run with little brakes then didn't have any problems. I think you just have to adapt your driving to the car, especially with the brakes.

Anyway... what are you trying to achive with more rear brakes?

Check the XRAY Offroad setup book. You'll find many hings you can change...

To win & to beat my up & coming disciple lol. I used to roll in, was ok as no one can come close. But now my disciple is getting better, he brakes alot with better lap time too.

Lauri · 12.05.2009, 08:46 AM

You want to have maximum brakes without locking the weels or making the car understeer. The understeer part is my problem becaus I want to brake into corners (brake+turn). This makes me limit brakes.

I really hope you have brake strenght dial (EPA) on your transmitter. Run on the track and increase the brake strenght every lap. You'll find a good balance. Then run... and after some time try to increase or decrace the brakes. Then run... and repeat it. This way you'll "learn" the car and feel the change well!

Using drag brakes is a thing to try also. Basically you could put so much drag brakes in that you only have to BRAKE only after straights when hard braking is needed. Most of the turns would go "automatically" with drag brake. This makes driving easier but again... you need a setup that can handle this. You might end up with understeering car like this.

You can change the drag brake on the ESC and also with Forward/Brake balance on the transmitter (don't use it too much).