Castle 1410 3800kv 3s vs 1406 5700kv on 2s.

[Swindez85]

Hello guys, this is my first post and most definitely wont be my last because these forums and the people are awesome

Anyway now for my question, I have a Duratrax Evader ST that I first got when they came out nearly 7-8 I dunno how many years ago. It has so far been one of my favorites for its agility and durability even though it is based on an ancient Losi XXT platform. But currently I have the tranny built to withstand brushless power using the motor robust Associated B2 diff gear and nitro Evader metal Idler so it has handled all I have thrown at it like a champ.

I currently use a MMPro with an old cm36 5700kv motor on a Duratrax 5400mah Lipo. This motor is showing its age being scarred up and been on the edge of overheating several times (way too much gear and 90+ summer temps along with times before I got an IR thermometer).

It still runs like a champ but I am looking for more bottom end torque and possibly a more efficient setup, even though I get great runtimes now as it is.

I was contemplating getting the new 1410 3800kv and running it on 3s. That would give me the exact same rpm as I get with the 5700 on 2s unloaded but I know it would be alot more efficient and have loads more torque, OR I could keep the 2s setup and get a more capable battery and just get a new 1406 5700kv. With the new ones being 4 pole Castle claims up to 30% more torque which I completely believe so i'm stuck at a crossroads. Some might call me crazy for wanting that much power in such a small truck but I like having it when I want it and not always having to use it, plus since I got my Erbe I have come to greatly appreciate the HV setups.

Also the truck is extremely lightweight, I haven't weighed it but I would say with the 2s installed it might weigh 2lbs loaded body and all, that might be pushing it because nearly the whole truck is Graphite minus the front arms and hub carriers. It is used mostly in the street or on really smooth surfaces and just mainly bashing for right now till I can start making time to go to the local track for some club racing.

[E-Revonut]

Get the 1410 1y 3800kv. You can gear it up for crazy speeds on 2s and still stay cool and then if you decide you want to run 3,4,5,or 6s on it later on you can. Yes....technically the motor can handle 6s, it has a 100k rpm limit. I've had 4s hooked up to mine in an sc10. Now my 1410 is in a SC10 4x4 geared close to 40 on 2s and after a full pack is only 130*f

[Bondonutz]

Originally Posted by E-Revonut

Get the 1410 1y 3800kv. You can gear it up for crazy speeds on 2s and still stay cool and then if you decide you want to run 3,4,5,or 6s on it later on you can. Yes....technically the motor can handle 6s, it has a 100k rpm limit. I've had 4s hooked up to mine in an sc10. Now my 1410 is in a SC10 4x4 geared close to 40 on 2s and after a full pack is only 130*f

+1
Incredibly versital motor.

[Swindez85]

Thats most likely what I will do. I have plenty of gearing options to choose from with pinions from 12-26.

[Swindez85]

Looks like my mind has been made for me lol. Now I just need to find a 3s that will fit in my chassis.

[_paralyzed_]

Originally Posted by Swindez85

Looks like my mind has been made for me lol. Now I just need to find a 3s that will fit in my chassis.

run it on 2s and gear up to compensate for the kv difference. that way you can use your existing 2s. get the 3s later when you have money. the 4 pole 1410, even on 2s, will make your 5700 2 poler look slow.

[Swindez85]

What kind of amp draw do you guys think I will see gearing up to compensate for the speed difference on 2s?. Any worse than what I see with my cm36 5700 when geared for around 30-35mph? My 2s Lipo is just a 20c Duratrax and its over 2 years old and has lost some of its punch and capacity so its showing its age as well. Next pack or packs will be Gens Ace most likely.

PS - I also realize the only way to tell if the pack will withstand it is to try it and monitor temps but just kind of looking for a ballpark guess if the amps would be the same on WOT burts, even though im sure it would be greater even if just slightly.

[bruce750i]

I think the same speed at the same weight would draw similar amps.

Your "Neu" motor will be more efficient than a new CM36 5700. You might have less amp draw than before, at the same speed.

[E-Revonut]

In my 6lb 2oz SC10 4x4 had a max amp draw of about 80 amps

[scarletboa]

i would definitely recommend the 1410 on 3s over the 1406 5700kv on 2s. also, the 1410 is more motor than the 1406 despite the same can size, so it would be able to handle being geared for higher speeds without heat issues.

they both run MUCH cooler than the cm36 motors. i run my 1410 in a 6-7lb very heavy crt .5 geared for 55mph on 3s and that motor stays at 120-135F after a hard run.

[Swindez85]

Well instead of starting another thread I decided to just post again in my own thread.

I just decided to get the 1410 from fleabay before the prices skyrocket on there as well. Thought rather hard between getting the motor or a better rated battery than my crappy 2s Duratrax 5400 Lipo but as it is even when geared for the moon with my cm36 5700 the battery comes out just barely above ambient when the ESC and the Motor both are on the rather warm side so I don't believe I have actually stressed this battery very much yet.

Definitely looking forward to the greater torque this motor should have compared to my CM36.

[Swindez85]

Well I finally got my motor in today and installed it in my Evader. Haven't had a chance to thoroughly test it and won't till sunday im afraid because of work which is a bummer.

I did however mess around for several minutes in the garage on carpet with a locked slipper and my 2s lipo at around 50% charge. I first tried the smallest pinion I had which was a 12t with a 90t spur to see just how much torque this thing had and was really impressed, instant wheelies. Then I used BrianG's speed calculator to use the gearing that would achieve the same same speed with my 5700 and a 14t pinion which was the sweet spot for that motor and achieved 29.9mph and came up with a 21t pinion.

After changing the pinion to the 21 and the slipper still locked I drove down the end of the carpet again and quickly grabbed around 1/4 throttle...still an instant wheelie, I could do nothing but giggle. I did this at least 20-30 times adjusting the slipper clutch back and forth and after repeated part and full throttle starts the motor was still only at ambient. Needless to say I cannot wait to get this thing out and do some real testing with it.

I did experience some stuttering at startup I attribute to the 4 pole slotted design so I changed the start power to medium and that helped.

I do have a question though, what timing range do these motors tend to perform the best in? I tried searching but had no luck and I thought I read somewhere that Patrick said these motors work best at 0 to 10 degrees but I cannot remember which thread it was.

[Bondonutz]

I'm runing this motor in a 6.5lb buggy (Losi 810-E) on indoor carpert track on 2s and it is a cool running torque monster. I'm running normal timing, anything more is excessive (especially in a light weight 2wd RC ?)

Most Castle motors work best with normal timing anyway IMO

I'd also suggest you loosen that slipper, you will rebuilding something shortly if not.

[Swindez85]

Hehe I know I will if I keep it that way which is why I have already been trying to keep my eyes open for an HPI firestorm roller. I desperately need something with an all metal transmission.

I may however have a hookup when it comes to my poor evaders transmission gears. My GF's dad works at a machine shop with a water jet cnc machine along with numerous other machining hardware. I gave him my evaders plastic ball diff gear to see if he could write up the cnc blueprints for it. He said he wasn't too sure if theyre water jet machine with theyre smallest nozzle could make the teeth of the gear but if it could then it would be no problem to fabricate one out of any metal I chose. So I have my fingers crossed.

If it turns out he can make them easily then over on Jang's forums with the astounding amount of people with evaders over there I might be able to market them. He has already stamped out a motor plate for my evader made out of steel both for rigidity and weight over the rear wheels for better traction that fits perfectly.

Every time I look at my evader or my E-Revo I keep trying to find some weak spot that could be made out of metal for better durability. I know the Revo's diffs are a weak spot but honestly, in two and half years of running mine I haven't had a single problem yet out of my diffs.

[Swindez85]

Well I have had a chance to run a pack or two through the new motor and so far so good. I was really thinking about going to a 3s battery but after further observation I do not believe this is going to be necessary. This motor is so efficient that I can just gear up to whatever speed it is I want and it never even breaks a sweat. Ran almost an entire pack through it yesterday in 90 degree heat at my local track here in huntsville non stop and motor, esc, and battery only reached 127, 119, 99 consecutively with 21/90 gearing in my evader.

Castle has really hit the nail on the head with this one. I kept going back and forth between choosing a comparable tacon motor or the 1410 and am glad I actually went with the 1410. As funding permits later on this year I might purchase a tacon or two to try out just for fun. I really want to get a sensored tacon motor so I can see how well my MMP feels in sensored mode since I first started my foray into brushless with a Novak ss5800 system and loved how smooth the power delivery was even though the ESC was garbage and cooked on me twice.

To this day I still wish I had never gotten rid of that motor so I could try it now.