Castle - Make A Special Edition Monster

[lutach]

Originally Posted by BrianG

Yeah, just look at Schulze's. Talk about expensive! $300-$400 for a "proper" 200A 12s ESC is more than fair IMO. Heck most of us were paying at least $200 for a 100A 4s ESC before the MM came out!

Schulze price is not realistic. How can they have a price of $600+ for the 40.160 less then a year ago and now the thing is $700+. Maybe they think they have a super controller, but I just can't see how it cost that much. If anyone can come up with an answer of where they get that price from please let me know.

[VintageMA]

My thought is to look at the best competitor in that HV ESC range - the strongest competition is the MGM 9032 and 12032 coming in at $400 and $450 respectively. Their hardware is solid, their software is horrible.

An ESC that could handle 10-12S, w/ or w/o BEC (I don't care really, but maybe better without - just another piece to break), with a built-in USB port (I think that is one of the best components of the MM compared to the MMM - very convenient to program not having to wear out the 3-pin connector removing and re-inserting it into receiver all the time - and about 5 times faster reading/writing settings than the Castle-Link), and with Castles ease of software programmability.

I would pay the comparable of an MGM controller for that!

[lutach]

I think the Europeans tend to over price their products. Might be that the workers over there are getting paid way more then the workers here (Engineers) so they have to price the product to keep them happy. If anyone here knew the total $$$ amount for the components (Not Digi Key, Mouser or Newark's price), you would be surprised at the cost. I don't know how much they pay for the PCBs, but still it would not be $400+. A $300 HV controller would see a lot of buyers not only us car guys, but the boat guys as well. Some of the boat guys prefer heat sink/fan cooling rather then water cooling.

Here is something Castle can do (I've had this in my head for a few years now). Make a "program box" and that would allows us to keep the laptop home, but make it in a way if there's any new updates you can add it to the program box and later to the controllers via a usb or some other connector that wouldn't require the user to remove the connector from the Rx.

[Pdelcast]

Originally Posted by lutach

If anyone here knew the total $$$ amount for the components (Not Digi Key, Mouser or Newark's price), you would be surprised at the cost.

I know the total $$$ amount, and I'd bet you would be surprised at how high it is -- especially when you consider that we get less than half the normal selling price when we sell through distribution (about 95% of our sales are through distribution.) The distributor and hobby shop make more money than we do when they sell a Castle product.

[Pdelcast]

Originally Posted by lutach

Here is something Castle can do (I've had this in my head for a few years now). Make a "program box" and that would allows us to keep the laptop home, but make it in a way if there's any new updates you can add it to the program box and later to the controllers via a usb or some other connector that wouldn't require the user to remove the connector from the Rx.

In the works. It's a simple card programmer, but it gives the ability to change simple settings in the field.

[bdebde]

$400 dollar range not a problem here either; I paid $375 for the MGM.

Patrick,

How hard would it be to put some kind of basic logging like the MGM? Amps, RPMs and Temp.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

I know the total $$$ amount, and I'd bet you would be surprised at how high it is -- especially when you consider that we get less than half the normal selling price when we sell through distribution (about 95% of our sales are through distribution.) The distributor and hobby shop make more money than we do when they sell a Castle product.

I'm going by what the Schulze 40.160 cost. I did a simple calculation even going by what the Authorized Distributors web pricing and I couldn't come up with why Schulze is charging so much. Now my prices on most of the components based on online pricings are 60-85% less and some times higher depending on the component.

Now a simple concept would be what most of us Independent Distributors (Or Brokers) use. Sell higher quantities at a reasonable price and make more profit. Make 1000 units at $150 profit and you have $150,000, now make 10000 units and make $50 profit and that gives you $500,000. A lot of retail and online places complain that Hobby city sells really low and the main reason is they know how to sell (Also, they are there in Asia and don't have to pay for high shipping ).

[Pdelcast]

Originally Posted by lutach

A lot of retail and online places complain that Hobby city sells really low and the main reason is they know how to sell (Also, they are there in Asia and don't have to pay for high shipping ).

No, the reason they sell low is because:

They don't have any real overhead. They don't stock anything. They are paying wages in China ($.45 / hour.) Their shipping is subsidized by the Chinese Government. They are operating on a 10%-12% margin. They don't sell any quality products (just made in Asia stuff.) They don't have any warranty costs -- those are put back on the suppliers.

But the biggest difference is they have zero liability. No lawyer in any other country could touch them for liability, loss of life, etc, because they are shielded by operating out of PRC.
So they are completely able to operate with no regard for quality, safety, etc.
They ship products containing Lead into Europe with impunity (something that would land me a HUGE lawsuit from the EU.)

Etc. etc. etc.

[VintageMA]

I didn't include the Schulze in my thoughts because everything I have about them is way overpriced and too many heat issues.

I guess one thing to consider is the value of the USD vs. the Euro right now. When I looked into getting a LMT motor about six months back I balked at the requested price from Hydro & Marine of $425 for a 1940 w/ shipping. That was when I got my first Neu and never looked back.

I believe in "you get what you pay for" and paying for quality. I would rather pay more up front and get quality that lasts then pay less and have to replace it several times.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

No, the reason they sell low is because:

They don't have any real overhead. They don't stock anything. They are paying wages in China ($.45 / hour.) Their shipping is subsidized by the Chinese Government. They are operating on a 10%-12% margin. They don't sell any quality products (just made in Asia stuff.) They don't have any warranty costs -- those are put back on the suppliers.

But the biggest difference is they have zero liability. No lawyer in any other country could touch them for liability, loss of life, etc, because they are shielded by operating out of PRC.
So they are completely able to operate with no regard for quality, safety, etc.
They ship products containing Lead into Europe with impunity (something that would land me a HUGE lawsuit from the EU.)

Etc. etc. etc.

I basically forgot about all those issues . I take all the fault for my stupidity.

Patrick, if you move the distributors aside for the or a Special HV RC-Monster Edition, would we see some discount? I think $300 is fair, but if we can get it for less, it would be even better. I will basically power all my R/Cs with it. Actually the little ones will have room issues, but I can figure something out . Maybe you can cook up 3 HV RC-Monster Edition. One for 1/8 scale, one for 1/10 scale and one for the little 1/18-1/14 scale. A complete HV line for cars . I could see Schulze in trouble here .

[TexasSP]

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

No, the reason they sell low is because:

They don't have any real overhead. They don't stock anything. They are paying wages in China ($.45 / hour.) Their shipping is subsidized by the Chinese Government. They are operating on a 10%-12% margin. They don't sell any quality products (just made in Asia stuff.) They don't have any warranty costs -- those are put back on the suppliers.

But the biggest difference is they have zero liability. No lawyer in any other country could touch them for liability, loss of life, etc, because they are shielded by operating out of PRC.
So they are completely able to operate with no regard for quality, safety, etc.
They ship products containing Lead into Europe with impunity (something that would land me a HUGE lawsuit from the EU.)

Etc. etc. etc.

Not too mention their plants face none of the code requirements we face in the US. Even US companies that own plants in China can't build them like the Chinese do (ISO requirements, HSE requirements and so on). I just went through all of this assisting our plant setup in china.

Heck they had my CNC machines that run @ 240 volts wired to the terminal with 16 and 18 awg wire, no joke.

There is also the fact that the Chinese government requires any foreign company to make a 1.5 million initial investment to open a plant there. However since we built our own machines we fudged the values up to assist us with this.

It goes on and on.

[suicideneil]

I liked hongkong more when it was a british colony....

That really does suck though, in this day and age accountability and blame are big issues, yet they can do what they like pretty much, highly unfair.

On the price front, I paid $540 for my hvmaxx system about 3-4years ago, so a proper Hv esc priced at $300-400 would be a bargain; I wouldnt touch schulze with a barge pole.

[BrianG]

You gotta admit, Schulze's make decent space heaters when they flare up though. Ever see Serum's Schulze hall of shame?

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

Well, the design I'm working on now should handle any of those motors with ease. Versions with 60 and 120 FETs will be first.

It won't be "moderately priced" like the MMM.

What would be unmoderately priced be?.......

[Pdelcast]

Originally Posted by azjc

What would be unmoderately priced be?.......

Well,

Probably around $275.00 for the 60 FET option in 8S and 12S versions. Around $375.00 for the 120 FET version (40V-8S or 60V-12S.)

8S - 60FET will handle in the 200A range (continuous) and 1000A (surge)
12S - 60FET will handle in the 125A range (continuous) and 500A (surge)

8S - 120FET will handle in the 325A range (continuous) and 2000A (surge)
12S - 120FET will handle in the 200A range (continuous) and 1000A (surge)

Most likely we will release the 12S version first (stock FETs) -- followed by the 8S version.

Sound OK?