Need response from a Castle tech for MMM question

[Bernie Wolfard]

PLEASE BE ADVISED, ANY MODIFICATIONS TO CIRCUIT BOARDS ON ANY CASTLE CREATIONS PRODUCT, WHETHER OR NOT THE ESC WORKS, VOIDS THE WARRANTY. IF A CASTLE CREATIONS ESC STOPS WORKING AND IT IS LESS THAN A YEAR OLD AND IT WANS'T ABUSED IT IS UNDER WARRANTY. IF THE ESC QUITS WORKING AND YOU MODIFY IT IT THE WARRANTY IS VOIDED. THE MOD SHOWN ON THIS THREAD PROBABLY WILL NOT WORK FOR MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT TAKES SPECIALIZED EQUIPMENT AND SKILL TO REMOVE COMPONENTS FROM OUR CIRCUIT BOARDS. WE USE LEAD FREE LIQUID FLUX HIGH TEMPRATUR SOLDER THAT DOES NOT WORK LIKE LEAD TIN FLUX CORE SOLDER. THIS MOD ONLY WORKS UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES AND IN MOST CASES ONLY DAMAGES THE BOARD OR LIFTS COMPONENTS ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE BOARD.

We are seeing problems with certain set ups with the MMM v2. Most (over 2400) work great with no problems. We cannot recreate these problems no matter what we do here to the ESC and its BEC. The failure points are not consistent and we are trying to track down what the problem is. Whatever this is, it will be fixed. If you want to help, and have not already done so, fill out Thomas’s request for information sticky on the forum.

A failed MMM will be repaired/replaced at no charge within one year from date of purchase. If there is any work on the circuit board or other obvious modifications, or there is crash damage, the ESC is out of warranty and will cost $70.00 for out of warranty replacement.

[jayjay283]

What about modifying the case as it rubs on the fan plug ?





"If there is any work on the circuit board or other obvious modifications"

[Bernie Wolfard]

Circuit board mods.

[jhautz]

Originally Posted by Bernie Wolfard

PLEASE BE ADVISED, ANY MODIFICATIONS TO CIRCUIT BOARDS ON ANY CASTLE CREATIONS PRODUCT, WHETHER OR NOT THE ESC WORKS OR NOT VOIDS THE WARRANTY. THE MOD SHOWN ON THIS THREAD PROBABLY WILL NOT WORK FOR MOST PEOPLE BECAUSE IT TAKES SPECIALIZED EQUIPMENT AND SKILL TO REMOVE COMPONENTS FROM THE CIRCUIT BOARD. THIS MOD ONLY WORKS UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES, IN MOST CASES IT ONLY DAMAGES THE BOARD OR LIFTS COMPONENTS ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE BOARD.

We are seeing problems with certain set ups with the MMM v2. Most (over 2400) work great with no problems. We cannot recreate these problems no matter what we do to the ESC and its BEC. The failure points are not consistent and we are trying to track down what the problem is. Whatever this is, it will be fixed. If you want to help, and have not already done so, fill out Thomas’s request for information sticky on the forum.

A failed MMM will be repaired/replaced at no charge within one year from date of purchase. If there is any work on the circuit board or other obvious modifications, or there is crash damage, the ESC is out of warranty and will cost $70.00 for out of warranty replacement.

Thanks Bernie. Very clear.

Glad to hear you guys are on this.

The only thing I am having a problem understanding is the low percentage failure rates CC is currently reporting. I personally know of 4 MMM V2s in my local area. All 4 have failed. I know this is a very low sample size, but if all 4 of us got one of the 1.5% failure rate I am going to go and buy a lottery ticket right now. The odds on that are astronomical. (Edit: did the math... odds are over 19 million to 1 of this happeneing at 1.5% failure rate. I'm not that lucky, or unlucky)All 4 are running different setups in differnt types of vehicles. The setups on the setup data collection thread are all very different accross the board. The only common thing I see in all of the reports is that the failures were using the on board BEC to power the Rx and servos.

I just got a 2nd MMM V2 and am planning to run this one with an external BEC. So far in that data collection thread not a single faiure has been reported while using external BEC or Rx pack.

Do you know of any failures reported from people runnig the MMM V2 with an External BEC ort Rx pack and the red wire pulled on the rx wire? Id be wiling to run this way if it will insure reliability.

[jhautz]

Also,

Point your guys to this post.

http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/show...000#post211000

I certainly think the constant pounding the brain board takes due to the fan plug and case design could be contributing to the inconsistant component failure points on the board.

[myndseye]

Originally Posted by Bernie Wolfard

PLEASE BE ADVISED, ANY MODIFICATIONS TO CIRCUIT BOARDS ON ANY CASTLE CREATIONS PRODUCT, WHETHER OR NOT THE ESC WORKS, VOIDS THE WARRANTY. IF A CASTLE CREATIONS ESC STOPS WORKING AND IT IS LESS THAN A YEAR OLD AND IT WANS'T ABUSED IT IS UNDER WARRANTY. IF THE ESC QUITS WORKING AND YOU MODIFY IT IT THE WARRANTY IS VOIDED.

First let me say that I love Castle for the previous experiences I've had with them. My Mamba Max and Mamba systems have sold me to the point that even after a long wait, and countless returns of my first Monster, I still went out to purchase another one. Not only that, but I spent extra money with the company in the form of two ccbec's to try revive them when they died. When the mod came out on this forum, I thought it was a godsend. I did it to both of them as they needed it, and have continued to enjoy them. Unfortunately, my ccbec units have both since died and now I still can't use them. I know that my controllers still work because they fire right up with a reciever pack (which I have no room for on my cars). I knew beforehand that performing the mod would void the warranty if I messed up, but now you say that even if done successfully, the warranty is still voided on the fact that successfully doing the mods is unlikely. The only reason we do the mods in the first place is because it is the very definition of insanity to keep repeating the same cycle with the return process, and expect a different outcome with an identical controller. Not to mention the down time in between.

[Bernie Wolfard]

jhautz,

The failures we see cluster with certain people and their set ups. If someone has a failure it raises the probability that they will have another. Most of the MMMs are running with no problems, include v1. This does not mean that the people who are having problems are doing anything wrong but it is a clue we need to follow up on. Yes, the data seems to be random but my guess is there is some statistical information that is not obvious. (our engineers will be parsing the data.) If you have had more than one failure in the same vehicle we would like to have the vehicle sent to us so we can hopefully recreate the problem. We will make arrangements for shipping.

There are MMMS that have failed with the on board BEC disabled and using an external BEC. The truth is, less than 5% of the people who drive RC visit forums with any frequency. The issues on forums have to be approached with that understanding or you get a distorted view of what is going on. (Sorry forum posters, but that is reality.)

I do need to let you know you were right about my 'fishy' comment on the BEC and the Micro processor. On most of our ESCS the BEC (if they have one) and the 3.5 volt power supply for the Micro processor are separate. On the MMM the on board switching regulator does supply power to the processor power supply which ultimately lowers voltage to 3.5. So in the case of the MMM, if the BEC failes the processor quits working. My mistake.

Bernie

[Bernie Wolfard]

myndseye,

We welcome and appreciate we all who are willing to experiment and try out different things with our products as long as this is done with a clear eye towards the warranty ramifications. More power to you!

Send those BECS in and we will get them fixed or replaced for you. I would be interesting to exploring what happened to them with you but we do not do this type of technical support in forums. Tech support gets paid for answering questions from direct customer contact, I.E. phone calls and emails. We also feel trouble shooting individual issue in forums is not a good use of our time partly because of the likelihood of misinterpretation. This is primarily from others viewing these discussions and the viewer assuming that individual problems are somehow universal.

Our contact info is either support[at]castlecreations.com or 913-390-6939.

Bernie

[TruckBasher]

Well, I do hope you also take into consideration that most of the setup that people had are working ones and even work on your under rated 3S Mamba max controller. And works great on other controllers even the cheapo ones.

I think its a big mistake to look into wonder around peoples setup for this failure. Well it will help at first to isolate any problem but you said it your self. There is no common setup that fails and irregardless of External and Internal BEC it still fails. Which means setup is not the cause, and the only common factor is the MMM itself.

Not that I hate CC, I still use your products and I love MM. But I also want MMM to work so lets face the facts. The failure rate is small at this point and that only those guys that complains are joining the forum to tell about the MMM tail. But let us not forget that most of the CC MMM are also on the shelves, RCM/Impack/Tower and even Ebay now are stacking up with MMM so the actual figure that you manufactured is not the total number of MMM to compare the failure...rates will be higher....

I honestly hope you figure this thing out so I can use the MMM....ohh and BTW I am one of the ones that modded my MMM which lasted longer that the stock MMM....it died now but I enjoyed it...sad that its not on warranty but its ok...I can even donate it to you so you can check it....

[George16]

Originally Posted by Bernie Wolfard

myndseye,

We welcome and appreciate we all who are willing to experiment and try out different things with our products as long as this is done with a clear eye towards the warranty ramifications. More power to you!

Send those BECS in and we will get them fixed or replaced for you. I would be interesting to exploring what happened to them with you but we do not do this type of technical support in forums. Tech support gets paid for answering questions from direct customer contact, I.E. phone calls and emails. We also feel trouble shooting individual issue in forums is not a good use of our time partly because of the likelihood of misinterpretation. This is primarily from others viewing these discussions and the viewer assuming that individual problems are somehow universal.

Our contact info is either support[at]castlecreations.com or 913-390-6939.

Bernie

I'm one of those forum members who modified the MMM. I'm stationed at a Navy base here in Japan. Let me make it clear to you that I asked for permission before attempting to do the mods myself. Heck, I even drop the name of BrianG (sorry Brian) during my conversation with the tech. I only did the mod after I received an explicit go ahead signal from the tech. In fact, I had to pay overseas phone call rates just to be able to talk to one of your reps before doing this mod. I did this to ensure my bases are covered if something bad happened (which it did). I was also told to send it in to get it fixed or replaced under warranty if it didn't work after the modification. I would have never done this if he said the warranty is voided.

If you have had more than one failure in the same vehicle we would like to have the vehicle sent to us so we can hopefully recreate the problem. We will make arrangements for shipping.

Send me a prepaid express/overnight shipping box so I can ship my truck from Japan to your facility. Before I do that though, I want to make sure you will send it back to me on a set date (not a when "we are done with testing date"). I will also only send it by express shipping (you pay for it) because even Priority mail takes about over a week from Japan and even longer for a package coming from the US.

By the way, I emailed him (the tech I talked to Monday night) about my dead modified MMM and I still have to receive a reply. I know you are swamped with work but I think if you have time to post here, somebody would also have the time to check their emails. I will be calling again tonight at around 11:00 pm Japan time (9:00 in the morning in Kansas) and would like to talked to you. I had been very upfront on what I was doing or plan on doing with the MMM as shwon by my posts in this board.

I'm hoping that CC will be able to sort this problem so everyone can reap the benefits from this ESC and not just a few. Nothing sucks than driving a truck and constantly thinking of when the ESC will fail and how bad it will fail.

So in the case of the MMM, if the BEC failes the processor quits working. My mistake.

So does this mean that feeding the processor via external BEC or Rx pack will revive the controller too?

[lincpimp]

Not to sound like a upity dumbass, but I successfully performed the mod on my MMM to remove the bec components. I did not use a soldering iron, just a single edge razor blade. After carefully removing the noted components, and triple checking the lack of any stray parts or bridges, I fired the esc up with a rx pack. No problems, and I ran the truck for a hard 20min bash session. Still works fine.

I would definately not suggest this mod for most people. I am very good at fixing small items, and have extremely steady hands. I am sorry to hear about the voided warranty, but I wanted to have a working truck and was not having much success with CC over the phone. I am supposed to be contacted by CC tech about this issue for a few days now. I just figured that they would send me a replacement MMM with some sort of return envelope for the other one, as I have already paid to ship one back... Oh well.

Still think that CC products are pretty good overall. The case design of the MMM is very poor, and the wires are not protected well enough in the case or as they exit. I would prefer to see the board screwed to the case a la MM...

i think the failure rates are much higher as i got one of the first MMM from tower and that was only a few weeks ago. takes people time to prepare and get them installed and the truck tuned up and ready to race. we are seeing the people that get these and then get them turned around very fast like me and others on this forum. i think you will see a lot more returns and posts once more people get them in the vehicles.

[RBMike]

Bernie, JHautz linked post about the fan connector is right on the money as one of this products issues (there may be more issues, maybe not). I also have worked in integrated electronics manufacturing (23 years in silicon valley). This mechanical design for the fan, fan wire routing & the plug are all a big NO NO on a unit that will see lots of vibration & mechanical shock.
#1) The clearance between the fan & the fan cover is too small.
#2) The fan wires will ALWAYS get the insulation rubbed off by the edge of the board the way you have them now.
#3) The SMT fan connector connection to the board is nowhere near strong enough to take the beating it gets on the bottom of that board.
I have had that plug break off of 2 MMM's in 2 different vehicles (1 V1 MMM & 1 V2 MMM)

I love the smoothness of this controller but I'm on #4 & the fan, the fan wires or the fan connector has failed on 3 before the BEC later failed & now #4 has a broken fan & connector has fallen off the board. I understand that the trends seen on these forums are not an accurate reflection of the real failure rate & have argued that point on this very forum but I no longer believe the failure rates provided by CC. I've sent my concerns about the mechanical issues with the fan & connector to Patrick (on Version #1) & again to Thomas recently & now you. Hope someone is listening, sure would hate to ask for a refund & go buy from Losi.

[GT35R]

Oh bugger. Posted not long after I modded mine and its still dead.

I will still send it back, if they want me to pay they can just keep it - its not worth it.

Bernie, if you are having trouble replicating the faults follow me three step easy guide
to MMM failure :

1. Install MMM onto Monster truck

2. Connect 6S batterys and drive

3. Wait 5min

Hope that helps.

[Sammus]

Originally Posted by GT35R

Oh bugger. Posted not long after I modded mine and its still dead.

I will still send it back, if they want me to pay they can just keep it - its not worth it.

Bernie, if you are having trouble replicating the faults follow me three step easy guide
to MMM failure :

1. Install MMM onto Monster truck

2. Connect 6S batterys and drive

3. Wait 5min

Hope that helps.

I will pay the repair if you can get them to ship it back to me. The fee is the same regardless of where you live, and includes shipping, so I don't see why they wouldn't.