HPI Vorza Flux... Hot Bodies Ve8... E-Revo...

[ReV:-O]

Hey guys, I've got a bit of a dilemma and was wondering if any of you could hopefully offer some advice...

Anyway heres the situation:

I currently own a brushless E-Revo with the MMM 2200 combo in it. I am running it on 6s lipo. Lets just say that i've never been really impressed with it from the day I got it. It seems to lack power that is displayed by other E-Revo owners. It can't do backflips. And no matter what I do to it, I can't get it past 51mph on the radar. People on the Traxxas forum have gotten theirs passed 70mph with the same setup as me.

Basically I am a speed freak. I love my r/c's to go fast. If they arn't fast, I get bored quick. I like the E-Revo because it is a monster truck and can therefore ride over any terrain. But it is a very heavy truck, and is just not fast enough for my liking.

So, the other night I was browsing the net and decided to have a look on HPI's website. Sure enough they have some new products, and one of them caught my eye:

http://www.hpieurope.com/kit-info.ph...103421&lang=en

The HPI Vorza. I was practically staring at it for about 3 minutes. It just looks amazing. I've never had a buggy/truggy before, only monster trucks. I do a small amount of racing, but mainly bashing and speed runs in my park.

I also came across the Hot Bodies Ve8, which is pretty much the same as the Vorza except I'd have to buy the MMM 2200 combo separately.

http://www.hotbodiesonline.com/kits/en/67535/

So, I'm thinking about selling my E-Revo and buying one of these. My reason for doing so is mainly for speed. Take the Vorza, for example. It's a buggy, therefore it should be a lot lighter than the E-Revo yet it will have the same power system in it. So theoretically it should be a lot faster, because you can gear it much higher.
However, when you scroll down to the bottom of the HPI Vorza page, they give a list of speeds:



According to HPI, the Vorza will only do 51mph out of the box with 6s lipo? Thats what i'm getting with my E-Revo, and thats a heafty monster truck! How can this be right?

My second concern with buying this is the strength of the car. As I said before, i've never owned a buggy. I've heard that truggy's are meant to be stronger than monster trucks, but buggy's arn't. Is this true?

My third concern is ground clearance. It looks pretty small, and therefore looks like it has limited ground clearance. I sometimes bash in grass, which is fairly short but grass nonetheless. I also bash in wooded areas, and am just wondering if the Vorza would be able to cope with that.

And a general concern for both the HPI and Hot Bodies: the batteries seem to be on one side only. Two 3s lipos on one side will surely weight it down - won't the weight distribution be mucked up? And I can't seem to see a transmission on either one of them, does this mean there is no slipper clutch?


ANYWHOO - really sorry for the long post, but I felt the more info I try and squeeze in there, the better. Either that, or you just read the first title and then skip to the end, in which case you are just reading this!

Cheers!

[sikeston34m]

Hi Rev,

I can't answer all of your questions, since I don't own a buggy. But I think I can help you with this one.

"According to HPI, the Vorza will only do 51mph out of the box with 6s lipo? Thats what i'm getting with my E-Revo, and thats a heafty monster truck! How can this be right?"

This is just a difference in gearing.

You could take that same 6S 2200kv Monster Combo and gear it for a top speed of 30mph. But It's not going to use the Combo to it's full potential.

Then again, you could gear the Monster Combo for 100mph, but that doesn't mean it's going to do it. The System will most likely cog and overheat, that is, IF your batteries stand up to the huge amp draw.

Total Amp Draw and Heat buildup are a couple things that limit us speed freaks.

[ReV:-O]

Thanks for your reply sikeston34m. I use a pair of NeuEnergy 30/60C lipos - top quality stuff. I'm running 22/62 gearing in my E-Revo which, according to the speed calculator, shoud be getting me around 60mph. Even with this gearing in a heavy truck, the lipo's barely get warm.

As the buggy is smaller and lighter, I should be able to gear it high with out worrying about anything overheating. But it gets me that HPI say you can't achieve anything higher than around 64mph unless you switch to the 2650 motor, which I swear isn't meant to be run above 5s lipo...

[lincpimp]

Recalibrate your radio to the esc. Make sure all of your throttle trims are centered and that you do not have any expo, etc set. You may find you were not running at full throttle.

[sikeston34m]

Originally Posted by ReV:-O

Thanks for your reply sikeston34m. I use a pair of NeuEnergy 30/60C lipos - top quality stuff. I'm running 22/62 gearing in my E-Revo which, according to the speed calculator, shoud be getting me around 60mph. Even with this gearing in a heavy truck, the lipo's barely get warm.

As the buggy is smaller and lighter, I should be able to gear it high with out worrying about anything overheating. But it gets me that HPI say you can't achieve anything higher than around 64mph unless you switch to the 2650 motor, which I swear isn't meant to be run above 5s lipo...

NeuEnergy makes really good Lipos. What Mah are they? 5000mah?

Ummm........HPI has been known to publish misinformation before. The way I look at most gearing suggestion publication is:

They have to come up with the "rules of thumb" for all the noobs to live by. LOL

The 2650 motor being capable of more overall power than the 2200kv is false. The 2200kv motor is bigger! Period.

There are alot of factors that determine just how much power a motor can/will deliver, all with the temperature showing the final limits.

1. Rotor size. Diameter, length and N scale strength of the Magnets used.

2. Efficiency. How well it converts electrical power to kinetic energy. You will see, most motors are rated with an efficiency % value. If a Motor's rating is 90%, and you're pushing 1000 watts through it, then you have 100 watt soldering iron inside and you must have a way to shed that heat before it lets the smoke out.

Just because a motor has a higher kv rating, doesn't mean it's capable of more "watts of total power".

Is the 2650kv motor a higher "speed" motor? Yes, but........see where the misunderstanding comes in?

[ReV:-O]

I've recalibrated my radio several times, and all MMM settings are on maximum.

Yup the lipo's are 5000mAh.

I completely understand the differences between motors, i.e. between the 2200 and 2650. I would never get the 2650, why would I? It's less efficient than the 2200, and less powerful.
I don't understand why HPI think you need this motor, why not gear up the more powerful 2200?

[bigboi146]

Check your slipper cluch for slippage. And make sure it isn't any binding.

[suicideneil]

All your MMM settings are on maximum?

Punch control should be turned down to improve acceleration, timing would be best at about the 2nd or 3rd notch up, and start power only needs to be on low, unless you are really geared to the moon.

62/22 isnt all that high really, I would bump it up 62/24 and see how the temps do (esc, motor & lipos).

[ReV:-O]

Yeah when I say maximum, I mean maximum in their respective full-power settings.

Slipper is as tight as she'll go.

I tried 24/54 gearing at some point, but all I got was temp issues and slightly reduced top end, with reduced torque.

[suicideneil]

24/54 is rather too high, 62/22 isnt quite enough- got to find the happy middle ground by playing with the gearing more. The physical maximum gearing the MMM system can pull is around 65mph based on early test results wheh the system came out, so there is room for a higher top speed in your setup, but if you gear too high all you will get is what you found- higher temps and lower speed/power as the motor cant pull the gearing you ask of it..

[PBO]

A friend suffered the exact same problem with his e-revo...it never got over 50, no matter what he did

He ended up buying a new 2200 & all was good again. I suspect he overheated it at some point although he swears he didn't...I guess it's possible he just got a Friday motor?

I've never seen a Vorza in the flesh but the 8ight is a proven performer with ample spares available. If I were getting a buggy, I'd be conservative & follow this direction...they will do 100 with the right setup!

[ReV:-O]

The 8ight-E is too expensive for me, and I dont really want the Losi electronics - it can only handle 5s.

suicideneil, I worked up the gears, I didnt just go straight to 24/54, I tried others out in between. But i just couldn't get much past 51mph no matter what I tried. With 22/62 gearing, the system gets fairly hot. Motor stays around 140F, and the MMM fan comes on at frequent intervals.

I think I'm gonna get the Vorza, because the battery tray on the Ve8 looks too small.

[PBO]

Originally Posted by ReV:-O

The 8ight-E is too expensive for me, and I dont really want the Losi electronics - it can only handle 5s.

Haha...er yeah, should qualify my post...

I'd buy a roller & use the RCM mount with the Losi tray & install a Nue or Castle with a MMM/RX8

Have a look a Dwight Schrute's fine examples, he builds nice vehicles of all types

[suicideneil]

Oh right, I gotchya now. Weirdness....

1/8 buggies do seem to make nicer road missiles if thats your thing, and they are definately more aerodynamic which helps alot- just glue those tires on well...

[ReV:-O]

I'm just wondering how tough buggies are. I know truggy's are meant to be stronger than monster trucks, but I dont really know about buggies. They don't have upper A-arms... I don't really know enough about them.