Could Vancouver 2010 be the next 9/11? - Page 7 - RC-Monster Forums

JThiessen · 02.02.2010, 02:10 PM

To me the "pull it" meant get the firefighters out of there, not to blow it up.

PBO · 02.02.2010, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JThiessen

To me the "pull it" meant get the firefighters out of there, not to blow it up.

Yep, as in let's not continue fighting to save it because it's a lost cause & critical failure is imminent

zeropointbug · 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JThiessen

Please note: the following is an opinion only. Please hide your children.

My take on #7 is that is was a casualty of location. It got hit by debris from one or both towers - but the significant damage likely came due to subsequent structural failure below ground level. You had over a million plus TONS of material falling literally right across the street from it. I dont know about you, but I think there may have been just a little bit of a "thud"......
causing a crater effect that took out the front of #7.

You have a valid argument there with there being a 'thud'; each planes strikes were 0.9, and 0.7 on the New York local Seismic activity respectfully... at the time of collapse, each tower had 2.1 and 2.3, but second tower collapsed first. The thing about that though, is that Seismic activity PRECEDED the Towers collapse, and was not due to the buildings momentum impacting the ground.

Experts cannot explain why the seismic waves peaked before the towers hit the ground. Asked about these spikes seismologist Arthur Lerner-Lam, director of Columbia University's Center for Hazards and Risk Research told AFP, "This is an element of current research and discussion. It is still being investigated."

"Only a small fraction of the energy from the collapsing towers was converted into ground motion," Lerner-Lam said. "The ground shaking that resulted from the collapse of the towers was extremely small."

Which would make perfect sense if they were brought down by means of demolition.

Have you ever seen preparation for a building demo. They work for MONTH's prepping the structure, and laying in charge lines. The sequence of explosions would have been visible in almost ANY of the footage of the buildings coming down. You would have seen a series of them going up the structure, then back down. There were what, 40,000 people that worked in those buildings? And not a one mentioned anything about any "strange" work being done? Pre-Cutting beams in an office environment? Everyone within 3 floors would have known about that.

Again, you are right that everyone would know about it, as they were told that there would be complete system power downs for 36 hour periods up to 3 weeks before 9/11. This can be verified and backed up.

Interview with Scott Forbes, an employee of WTC complex, Senior Database Administrator for Fiduciary Trust:

SF: "In my office on the 97th floor in WTC 2 (South Tower), as usual except that myself and a lot of my colleagues were also working the weekend of 9/8 and 9/9."

SF: "Because of a "power down" notified by the Port Authority. Power was being switched off for a 36hr period in the top half of tower and as I work for a Financial Institution and Bank in the Technology Group I was working on the shutdown and eventually the startup of all our systems."

SF: "I suppose at that time I would have been working one weekend in every 6 or 8 weeks, so it was not unheard of. Working in Technology you get used to working 'out of business hours.' I guess what was odd about this weekend was that as all power was going down then all of our systems were being shutdown. This was extreme and unprecedented."

When asked about how many power outages there were since he worked there, he says:

SF: "None in Tower 2 that I was aware of. We had a backup Generator for our Data Center on floor 97 in the event of an unplanned power outage but it had not been used during my time in the company. You have to understand how unprecedented the power down was. To shutdown all of our financial systems, all inter-related and with connections and feeds to may outside vendors and suppliers was a major piece of work. Additionally, the power outage meant that many of the 'ordinary' building features were not operating, such as security locks on doors, cameras, lighting, etc."

When asked about how many floors were powered down during this time:

SF: I can't give you the absolute numbers, but I know it was the 'top half ' of WTC 2, so I'd say from floor 50 or so.

When asked about what the Port Authority-NY/NJ power downs were for:

SF: As far as I recall it was for re-cabling, though I don't remember the wording on official documents or the detail, as I wasn't in the Management Loop.

Finnster eluded to the keep quite aspect. Something of this magnitude could never have been kept secret. If there is one thing I have learned about people, is they cant keep their mouths shut. Only in the movies can something like this occur. Let's see - I'm a criminal mastermind, and I need some minions to execute my plan. I call all my friends, and they call all of theirs....wait, only 40% like it, 50% dont care one way or another, but that pesky 10% that think I am morally the equivelent of Lincpimp's great step dad are a real problem....so to keep with the Hollywood theme, I have to execute them ALL and make it appear natural...wow. Now after the fact, NONE of my loyal minions see that they can make bucko big bucks by telling the real story? Nobody got their toes stepped on, and wants some revenge?
Just too grand of a scale to have been a feasible theory.

Regardless of what you may think can be kept quiet and what not, keep this in mind, 90% of the media companies are owned by 5 Corporations, and those corporations have stakes in many other companies, and there are many (look it up) politicians/royal families (of which all presidents are related), many in high ranking power that have stakes/shares/ownership of these companies and/or media companies.

For the real smoking gun on WTC 7, does the name Barry Jennings ring a bell? He was the emergency worker, head of the department. They were told to evacuate the building before the twin towers were even coming down. However, IIRC, he went back in to make sure everyone was out, and he encountered only one other person, someone who worked there, who said they should get out. As they were moving down the stairs, there was a massive explosion, and the stairs collapsed. He went back up and heard several more explosions if I recall correctly. Anyways, check the link to the video of the interview with Barry Jennings, look him up, he is legit, and 2 years ago, he died from undisclosed circumstances. He was told by media that those were fuel oil tanks exploding, he says he knows what he heard, oils tanks don't blow up with such force, he heard explosions, bombs going off perhaps.

LINKS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxUj6...eature=related

I am not trying to seem cocky like some have suggested, I am just trying to show you the plethora of evidence to a contrary story to the official one. I could go on and on about this subject, and related. I haven't even touched all the slips of the tongue of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc... like why would Bush be sitting in a preschool classroom (reading a book upside down mind you, LOL), have been told that planes hit the Towers and not even move a muscle! Also, when asked by an audience member went through his mind when the towers were hit: he said that when he saw on TV the first tower being hit (before the second one was even hit)... this is simply impossible as the video of the first strike was surfaced the next day, so what was Bush looking at then? Why would Rumsfeld slip up over the plane being shot down over Shanksville? Cheney had the very same slip up as wel. I haven't even mentioned the whole situation going on with "Northern Command" where Cheney had complete control over the 'exercise' at the time about, what do you know! A terrorist attack with planes hitting buildings! Look it up, there was soo much confusion going on with the whole exercise where the planes that were actually headed for the WTC building were noticed, and monitored, "...is this real world or exercise" then they were given specific orders NOT to intercept the planes. Look it up.

Or what about all the video surveillance that was confiscated within 5 mins of the Pentagon being hit! Off the top of my head, there was at least a gas station, hotel, and at least one other one I can't remember what it was that had direct video surveillance pointing in the exact direction of the Pentagon crash, all forcefully confiscated within minutes.

Another tid-bit about the 99 year lease of Silverstein:

One clause in Silverstein Properties' insurance policies for the new WTC holdings soon proved instrumental. Quoting the British Financial Times of September 14, 2001, the American Reporter wrote that ‘ the lease has an all-important escape clause: If the buildings are struck by “an act of terrorism”, the new owners' obligations under the lease are void. As a result, the new owners are not required to make any payments under their lease, but they will be able to collect on the loss of the buildings that collapsed or were otherwise destroyed and damaged in the attacks. ’ [9] Silverstein Properties is still contesting the amount of pay-out due for destruction of the Twin Towers—$3.55 billion for one ‘occurrence’ or $7.1 billion for two ‘occurrences’. The “terrorism” clause in his lease has given Larry Silverstein leverage in negotiating his new deal for the site. [10]

zeropointbug · 02.02.2010, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JThiessen

To me the "pull it" meant get the firefighters out of there, not to blow it up.

You think so? If that's what he really meant, so be it, it doesn't matter anyways, doesn't add much to the wealth of other evidence.

PBO · 06:43 PM

All the people who would have to be involved in order to pull this massive conspiracy off...

-The Bush Administration, who failed at everything they ever did. Yet all of them and the people below are helping him cover up the largest mass murder in US history... Some of them like Richard Clarke and Paul O'Neil have come out for less.

-The NYC Fire fighters who know more about building collapses than most, if not all, of them. It's their LIFE to know. Literally! Yet they don't call for an investigation into the MASS MURDER of over 300 of their brothers... Why? (The twisting of these peoples’ statements for donations and DVD sales sickens me.) We have uncovered the myth about a gag order imposed on all fire fighters. Only 9/11 conspiracy sites say this. ONE person who sued Bush for not taking action before the event is ordered by the court not to speak to the media about the case. This is not imposing a gag order on the whole fire department as some of these sites claim. They are lying to cover up this mass murder by the government or the building owner. Why? They don't even know...

Conspiracy theorists bring up an article in Fire House magazine which says the fire department wanted to stop the steel from being sold in order to test the fire proofing and other non-bomb/controlled demolition related investigations. They twist the article’s context to make it seem like the firefighters questioned the idea that fire brought down the towers.

http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Artic...y.cfm?Section=
OnlineArticles&SubSe%20ction=Display&PUBLICATION_ID=
25&ARTICLE_ID=131225

http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Artic...nlineArticles&
SubSection=Display&PUBLICATION_ID=25&ARTICLE_ID=130026

Many of these men and women come from the military, yet we are to believe they are so afraid they rather die in the government’s next mass murder than come out and expose this.

-The courts for imposing a gag order [SEE above]

-The NYC Police department who lost over 20 lives. They didn't ask for an investigation. Motive? None...

-The NYC port Authority who lost personnel. Motive?

-All the people in the Pentagon who have not called for an investigation. Many who are liberal and centrist. They did or said nothing while people supposedly trucked in airplane parts to cover the crime. Why? Again, no answer...

-The more than 1,600 widows and widowers of 9/11 who would rather have investigations of the decisions which led to the terrorist getting away with this. They don't want to waste time investigating the mass murder of their loved ones. Even the Jersey Girls. Why? They say it's the money... [note: Whenever killing someone, pay off the relative. They won’t say anything.]

-The media (This one I almost believe) who doesn't follow up on the biggest mass murder and conspiracy in American history. It seems no one wants a Nobel prize for journalism. Not only the American media but foreign press like the BBC and Al Jazeera. Why? No answer here either...

-The photographers from around the world who took pictures of the towers which clearly show bowing of the perimeter columns. These photos support the NIST hypothesis that the sagging trusses lead to the collapse. Some photos also show the core intact shortly after collapse which also not only support the NIST hypothesis but discredits the "Controlled demolition" account.

-Popular Mechanics who debunked these sites are also helping Bush commit the biggest mass murder in history.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...e/1227842.html

-PBS Nova since they created a documentary explaining in detail how and why the buildings fell. None of it said bomb.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/

-Everyone in the NIST who covers up the largest mass murder in US history. This independent organization doesn't have a moral person in hundreds of employees because not one has come out exposing this so called "Conspiracy". In fact, the hundreds of scientist who signed onto the report are willing to not only lie for Bush but cover up the largest mass murder in American history. Some suggest only a handful can do the job but that's simply impossible. The team in charge of the computer modeling has to be in sync with the team of structural engineers and so on. There are hundreds involved in this investigation and every team has to work with other teams using the same evidence and specifications.

-NY Governor Pataki because he sold steel from the WTC for the construction of the USS New York. If the argument is the government sold the steel in order to cover up the crime then Pataki is one of the criminals.

-The NY city scrap yards because they also sold steel to China before all of it was tested. Bush would have needed to call them up and tell them to sell it before they could have investigated every beam. A task which would have taken years and years not to mention millions more. Ironically the republican Mayor Bloomberg could not be involved since he asked the scrap yards not to sell the steel on behalf of the firefighters.

-EVERY STRUCTURAL ENGINEER IN THE WORLD who doesn't write a paper for a mainstream peer reviewed journal saying the towers were brought down and could not have fallen due to fire. If laymen can prove things just by looking at videos and reading interviews out of context, then all those structural engineers MUST be working for Bush right? Even the ones in other countries. Why? The answer they give is that the engineers don't know about Jones’ work. So in all this time no one has e-mailed Jones' work to any structural engineer?

-Structure Magazine who published a report saying the collapse of WTC 7 may have been due to one column failing.

-The liberals who don't believe the towers were brought down. (Like me) They're helping a neo-con cover-up the largest mass murder in this nation’s history. Why? No clue...

-The CIA

-The FBI

-FEMA

-The American Society of Civil Engineers who have produced peer reviewed papers showing how what Conspiracy Theorists say is impossible is possible.

-NORAD

-The FAA who saw planes which conspiracy theorists say never existed.

-The Silverstein Group who they say got together with Bush to blow up the building for insurance money.

-Silverstein's Insurance Company who didn't question the collapse and paid out over 2 billion to Silverstein. Why? Conspiracy Theorists say the insurance company just wants to pass on the bill to the public but they already fought Silverstein in a number of law suits concerning the amount.

-American Airlines (Pentagon)

-United Airlines (Pentagon)

-Logan, Newark and Dulles Airport for losing the planes

-Scientists and engineers who developed the remote control plane technology

-Installers of the remote control devices in the planes (Pentagon)

-Remote controllers of the planes (Pentagon)

-Scientists and engineers who developed the new demolition technology and carried out practical tests and computer models to make sure it would work.

-Installers of the demolitions devices in the three buildings

-People who worked at the company(s) the installers used as cover

-Airphone etc employees who said they got calls from passengers (Pentagon)

-Faux friends and relatives of the faux passengers or just the faux relatives who claim to have been called by their loved ones or just the psyops who fooled relatives into thinking they really were their loved ones. (Pentagon)

-People who detonated the buildings"

-anyone who thinks the conspiracy is a diversion to take liberal activist focus off of real crimes.

Even conspiracies with a few people are doomed. Look at Enron and Watergate. The more people you involve, the more likely the conspiracy will fall apart. The amount of people needed for this conspiracy could fill one of the towers. It's absurd to think this many people could keep a mass murder for Bush secret for this long. Absurd...

A common excuse for no one coming out who was part of this so called 9/11 conspiracy is they fear death. If you analyze the argument carefully you realize they are debunking themselves. Why would even people in the military be more fearful of exposing this than the common conspiracy theorists behind a computer monitor? Either they don't believe what they're saying or they actually think they are more fearless than the thousands of others who would have had to be "in on it". As if people in the CIA or FBI couldn't figure out how to get the message out if they wanted to without exposing who they are. People, dates, places, memos and other evidence could easily be disseminated to the public without exposing who they are. The only reason they claim the people are paralyzed with fear is because they have too in order for the conspiracy story to work

JThiessen · 08:19 PM

Well said PBO - but you left out the biggest and most important NYC group - the Mob (or whatever business group they call themselves today). NOTHING happens construction wise there without them getting their share.

ZP - there are so many holes in your responses to the last days posts, I just dont have the time, the energry, or care enough to reply to them.

_paralyzed_ · 02.02.2010, 08:24 PM

PBO makes excellent points, we all have. But his argument is also a/b. I don't buy all the conspiracy stuff. The answer is c or d or f

Silverstein said "pull it". Building owners don't decide whether or not rescue crews continue work. Only the fire cheif at the location decides whether his men fight the fire or do damage control. So the thought that, "pull it" was meaning pull the firefighters out makes no sense.

Also, after he made the "pull it" order the building immediately collapsed. Again, defying all odds and landing in a neat little pile.

Maybe Silverstein hired the terrorists and the gov't wasn't involved?
Maybe it's the illumanati, skull and bones secret society
Maybe it's a freak occurence.
Maybe it's aliens.

Who knows. I guess I keep reading more.

zeropointbug · 02.03.2010, 02:20 AM

[QUOTE=PBO;347276]All the people who would have to be involved in order to pull this massive conspiracy off...

-The Bush Administration, who failed at everything they ever did. Yet all of them and the people below are helping him cover up the largest mass murder in US history... Some of them like Richard Clarke and Paul O'Neil have come out for less.

How did they fail at everything they did? They got the PATRIOT ACT in, they got the PATRIOT ACT 2 in, not to mention all the other laws and shit that are against your Constitution and take away your rights...they have started war against three countries, destroyed their economies, peppered them with radio active depleted Uranium that will contaminate the whole area for the next 4.5 BILLION years....

-The NYC Fire fighters who know more about building collapses than most, if not all, of them. It's their LIFE to know. Literally! Yet they don't call for an investigation into the MASS MURDER of over 300 of their brothers... Why? (The twisting of these peoples’ statements for donations and DVD sales sickens me.) We have uncovered the myth about a gag order imposed on all fire fighters. Only 9/11 conspiracy sites say this. ONE person who sued Bush for not taking action before the event is ordered by the court not to speak to the media about the case. This is not imposing a gag order on the whole fire department as some of these sites claim. They are lying to cover up this mass murder by the government or the building owner. Why? They don't even know...

You keep attacking about shit no one here can answer, and frankly doesn't matter at this point... and who said anything about gag orders, I never?! Who says fire fighters know anything about buildings collapsing? How would you know this, why would you think that? Perhaps on a smaller scale such of HOUSES, but skyscrapers bro?

Conspiracy theorists bring up an article in Fire House magazine which says the fire department wanted to stop the steel from being sold in order to test the fire proofing and other non-bomb/controlled demolition related investigations. They twist the article’s context to make it seem like the firefighters questioned the idea that fire brought down the towers.

Never seen this article, can't find it, and I don't see how this has any relevancy to any evidence at all, quit nit-picking at idiot "theorists" claims, I am not one of those, I am just presenting the evidence, not speculation, and not theories.

http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Artic...y.cfm?Section=
OnlineArticles&SubSe%20ction=Display&PUBLICATION_ID=
25&ARTICLE_ID=131225

http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Artic...nlineArticles&
SubSection=Display&PUBLICATION_ID=25&ARTICLE_ID=130026

Many of these men and women come from the military, yet we are to believe they are so afraid they rather die in the government’s next mass murder than come out and expose this.

Don't you think they be using high paid FBI/CIA/military agents/leaders who work with the government on a daily basis, and have dirt on each other? Just think about that.

-The courts for imposing a gag order [SEE above]

mass media controls thought patterns/ideas/points of view in this country/society

-The NYC Police department who lost over 20 lives. They didn't ask for an investigation. Motive? None...

Why would they if they believe the media that it was a terrorist attack... these questions of yours are nothing more than the general consensus of the population, a kind of self fulfilling mentality of the population, fed by fear of being an outcast if you do not fit in.

-The NYC port Authority who lost personnel. Motive?

Are these ppl family, no, enough said.

-All the people in the Pentagon who have not called for an investigation. Many who are liberal and centrist. They did or said nothing while people supposedly trucked in airplane parts to cover the crime. Why? Again, no answer...

No answer bro.

-The more than 1,600 widows and widowers of 9/11 who would rather have investigations of the decisions which led to the terrorist getting away with this. They don't want to waste time investigating the mass murder of their loved ones. Even the Jersey Girls. Why? They say it's the money... [note: Whenever killing someone, pay off the relative. They won’t say anything.]

There are few family members who have went public and asked the 9/11 case be reopened (was it ever even open to begin with?), then the unaccounted for families who are maybe simply too fearful of what might happen if they ask questions.

-The media (This one I almost believe) who doesn't follow up on the biggest mass murder and conspiracy in American history. It seems no one wants a Nobel prize for journalism. Not only the American media but foreign press like the BBC and Al Jazeera. Why? No answer here either...

Good answer here man, really...like why did they show WTC 7 once on the day of 9/11 and never show it on TV again?

-The photographers from around the world who took pictures of the towers which clearly show bowing of the perimeter columns. These photos support the NIST hypothesis that the sagging trusses lead to the collapse. Some photos also show the core intact shortly after collapse which also not only support the NIST hypothesis but discredits the "Controlled demolition" account.

Those pictures neither supports nor discredit either side of the argument. NIST report is full of half truths and speculation.

-Popular Mechanics who debunked these sites are also helping Bush commit the biggest mass murder in history.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...e/1227842.html

Yes, I have read the whole article, and it is simply rubbish, they only attempt two legit claims for the 'conspiracy' side, the rest are nit-picking at claims made by idiots on the web with two brain cells that simply don't know what they are talking about and just like to rant at the government, and can't keep their mouths shut, they are the reason many people shy away for the conspiracy evidence, because they see idiots making outrageous claims, so they think that it ALL must be wrong and unsubstantiated.

-The pod claim, I do not support this silly theory, and is one that PM debunks, well pretty easy when it's a full of shit claim to begin with.
-The stand down order, well this one is just half truth on PM's part, they admitt there was an exercise going on, and that's it, they fail to mention that the exercise was for PLANES HITTING BUILDINGS, and that Dick Cheney had full control of the north east air defense, and the whole operation was told to stand down shooting down the planes. So deliberately confused.
-Flight 175 windows... this was ONE guy, a Fox news reporter Marc Birnbach said he saw no windows on the side of the plane, I for one do not support this claim, easy target for PM again...
-'Widespread Damage' claim... this is just plain rubbish on PM's part, there were bombs going off under the towers, we know this, many firefighters said this, many citizens said this, which can be backed up by videos all over the internet, am I hearing shit, or did I hear a definite 'sharp' bomb blast, concurrent with demolition charges, sharp and powerful blasts.
-Melted steel, this is another 'idiot' theorist claim which I do not support, I for one will agree that the steel does not need melting to suddenly 'give way', but there were rivers of molten metal pouring out of the towers shortly after impact, and it would not be aluminum, as it does not glow red at point of melting, gives off no infrared spectrum at all. As well as all the massive pools of molten steel nearly a month later in ground zero rubble.
-'Puffs of dust'... this is one that cannot be used either way, because it is circumstantial to both theories, no matter how unlikely the pancake collapse is.
-Seismic activity... the second graph is clearly not the same as the first and is also very dissimilar to the official and original graph, and I have never seen this graph until now, which leads me to believe it is possible that it is a fake.
-WTC 7, ooooohhh, so they finally come up with a speculative theory on how it came down now! They sound VERY sure on what happened as well, seeing as the original 9/11 commission report completely disregarded #7, as well as TV, and was never shown again. NIST is government owned, why would they have them make a report that was to the contrary to the official story!?
-Pentagon debunking is a complete joke on PM's part, I am not even going to bother with this one.
-The rest of the debunking is all idiot claims again, easy pickings for PM... they don't even TOUCH the real evidence on 9/11... what kind of debunking is that? That is a piece of science fraud is what that is.

[QUOTE=PBO;347276]

PBO · 03:01 AM

Haha

zpg, you're determined to argue your own argument no matter what. Good for you but that's why nobody wants to play ball with you. You can't frame your argument on the basis that you've got x,y,z opinions & unless they're proven wrong - you must be right...unless your surname is Bush of course!!

It's going to get very lonely in here...shall I close the door on my way out?

zeropointbug · 02.03.2010, 04:41 PM

My internet was down all night and morning... I barely got that post in as it took 5 mins to do so. Here is the other half, as the whole thing was too big. PBO, you must see the irony in what you are saying, you are arguing why no one else (your opinion) is asking questions, the reason many people don't IS THE VERY REASON WHY YOU ARE. Think about it.

-PBS Nova since they created a documentary explaining in detail how and why the buildings fell. None of it said bomb.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/

Again, this is a government owned media company, think about what you are posting before you post it.

-Everyone in the NIST who covers up the largest mass murder in US history. This independent organization doesn't have a moral person in hundreds of employees because not one has come out exposing this so called "Conspiracy". In fact, the hundreds of scientist who signed onto the report are willing to not only lie for Bush but cover up the largest mass murder in American history. Some suggest only a handful can do the job but that's simply impossible. The team in charge of the computer modeling has to be in sync with the team of structural engineers and so on. There are hundreds involved in this investigation and every team has to work with other teams using the same evidence and specifications.

NIST is a private company that is funded by who? GOVERNMENT GRANTS, just like every other large organization that makes popular decisions on our behalf, with no consultation by us.

-NY Governor Pataki because he sold steel from the WTC for the construction of the USS New York. If the argument is the government sold the steel in order to cover up the crime then Pataki is one of the criminals.

Sell out... billions of USA tax payers money goes missing every year? Unaccounted for... what might that laundered money be used for then? It would be clean would it not?

-The NY city scrap yards because they also sold steel to China before all of it was tested. Bush would have needed to call them up and tell them to sell it before they could have investigated every beam. A task which would have taken years and years not to mention millions more. Ironically the republican Mayor Bloomberg could not be involved since he asked the scrap yards not to sell the steel on behalf of the firefighters.

It was FEMA who rustled all the steel up and shipped it off to China, FEMA is a government agency as of a few years before 9/11.

-EVERY STRUCTURAL ENGINEER IN THE WORLD who doesn't write a paper for a mainstream peer reviewed journal saying the towers were brought down and could not have fallen due to fire. If laymen can prove things just by looking at videos and reading interviews out of context, then all those structural engineers MUST be working for Bush right? Even the ones in other countries. Why? The answer they give is that the engineers don't know about Jones’ work. So in all this time no one has e-mailed Jones' work to any structural engineer?

Who is this Jones? For your information, only a few engineers of WHOM work for these organization publicly support the official story... the engineers who publicly do not support the official story far outnumber them, 800+ and growing since last year.

-Structure Magazine who published a report saying the collapse of WTC 7 may have been due to one column failing.

Those theories are so far fetched it's ridiculous, building would have much more likely of fallen over, they don't fall neatly into their footprint.

-The liberals who don't believe the towers were brought down. (Like me) They're helping a neo-con cover-up the largest mass murder in this nation’s history. Why? No clue...

-The CIA

-The FBI

-FEMA

-The American Society of Civil Engineers who have produced peer reviewed papers showing how what Conspiracy Theorists say is impossible is possible.

Again, these are government agencies and organizations of course you are going to get a one sided answer from them.

-NORAD

-The FAA who saw planes which conspiracy theorists say never existed.

They see blips on a screen.

-The Silverstein Group who they say got together with Bush to blow up the building for insurance money.

-Silverstein's Insurance Company who didn't question the collapse and paid out over 2 billion to Silverstein. Why? Conspiracy Theorists say the insurance company just wants to pass on the bill to the public but they already fought Silverstein in a number of law suits concerning the amount.

-American Airlines (Pentagon)

-United Airlines (Pentagon)

-Logan, Newark and Dulles Airport for losing the planes

-Scientists and engineers who developed the remote control plane technology

-Installers of the remote control devices in the planes (Pentagon)

-Remote controllers of the planes (Pentagon)

-Scientists and engineers who developed the new demolition technology and carried out practical tests and computer models to make sure it would work.

-Installers of the demolitions devices in the three buildings

-People who worked at the company(s) the installers used as cover

-Airphone etc employees who said they got calls from passengers (Pentagon)

-Faux friends and relatives of the faux passengers or just the faux relatives who claim to have been called by their loved ones or just the psyops who fooled relatives into thinking they really were their loved ones. (Pentagon)

-People who detonated the buildings"

-anyone who thinks the conspiracy is a diversion to take liberal activist focus off of real crimes.

Even conspiracies with a few people are doomed. Look at Enron and Watergate. The more people you involve, the more likely the conspiracy will fall apart. The amount of people needed for this conspiracy could fill one of the towers. It's absurd to think this many people could keep a mass murder for Bush secret for this long. Absurd...

This is not about Bush, it is about the dark mysterious group of power hungry people you call Government. You have to ask yourself what good have they done for you? Really think about his one, I am sure a few quirks here and there, but overall they rob you of your money, of which your income tax, you see nothing for it. They go to war without the people's approval (the Gov. is supposed to be accountable to the people, not the other way around), they sell you drugs for up to several 100,000 times profit margin to the poor, they spend insane amounts of money on the military. They setup a monetary system that is not even backed by Gold, which brings you so far into debt that you can't even count anymore (so far Obama has put you more in debt than ALL other presidents combined)... this shit goes on and on... and they have the balls to say you love them?!

A common excuse for no one coming out who was part of this so called 9/11 conspiracy is they fear death. If you analyze the argument carefully you realize they are debunking themselves. Why would even people in the military be more fearful of exposing this than the common conspiracy theorists behind a computer monitor? Either they don't believe what they're saying or they actually think they are more fearless than the thousands of others who would have had to be "in on it". As if people in the CIA or FBI couldn't figure out how to get the message out if they wanted to without exposing who they are. People, dates, places, memos and other evidence could easily be disseminated to the public without exposing who they are. The only reason they claim the people are paralyzed with fear is because they have too in order for the conspiracy story to work[/QUOTE]

Overall you bring some goods points, but just to make a point on your argument that all these people are on gag orders.

Just think about this for a moment... society is like a single organism in a way, there are patterns and mentalities that exist without even noticing them. The general population has a sort of averaging affect, thought/point of view patterns will be averaged to a certain degree. Now, add in a 'universal pattern organizer' so to speak, the mass media, then you have a vastly more 'averaged' society. Whatever the thoughts are of the media, highly likely those are the thought patterns of the masses. It gets to the point where the media becomes a new kind of 'deity' that the people look up to for comfort, because over time the people loose the ability to think for themselves. They have a 'shock' placed on them (ex. 9/11) they have fear going threw their being to their core, they look to their deity for answers, which gladly provide them with EXACTLY what they want to hear, not even what they need to hear, but what they WANT to hear. It's called 'shock-n-awe' effect these catastrophic effects, they have been used for centuries by leaders to start wars, in fact EVERY major war has been initiated by these means.

Why would anyone question the official story if the deity says otherwise? Why would anyone question anything if no one ELSE is questioning? Why people ask then, why doesn't anyone else question this? If no one else is questioning this, it must be wrong, and will go back to doing what I do best, a slave that thinks their free.

Thank for the posts, good points you bring up.

zeropointbug · 02.03.2010, 04:50 PM

I have posted enough, I am tired of arguing with people who ignore the direct science and prefer to listen to the prostitutes of science, sell outs to the highest bidder who distract you from the physical evidence and pound into you brain a theory that not only flies in the face of history, but also the Laws of Physics.

So, I bid you ado. Good day.

lutach · 05:04 PM

In order to have new laws and war put on, there needs to be an axcuse for it. Did Iraq have WMDs? No, is the answer, but they sure have a lot of Oil. To anyone wanting to do some reasearch, do it on that and find out who is gaining from it. I'll leave it at that and I'll be watching this thread.

Mods please don't delete this.

Something off topic, I'll be doing a little something as NASA messed up a bit. I'll start a new thread when I'm done and posted the video. You guys will enjoy it.

Finnster · 02.03.2010, 06:36 PM

Hard to start with all that... but a few general observations.

I don't see any "evidence" to support such wild speculation. Its mostly unfounded assertions of why something is "impossible" w/o demonstrating why, accounts of "slips of the tongue," and when logical explanations are provided or otherwise become inconvient, whole sections of data are summarily dismissed w/o refutation. Where the theory is weak, it is simply patched with more layers of conspiracy and shadowy and unknowable deciet.

Basically, anything that can be made to fit the theory is true, anything contradictory is automatically a trick or lie.
I am very interested to know Alan Alda, Bob Vila and Big Bird are agents of the illuminati, as are any gov't employees anywhere. My cousin's wife is a Deputy Sec of the Dept of the Interior, and I've had my suspicions about her for a while. She may appear a woman who hands out gov't cheese to destitute Indian reservations and rides rodeo horses on the weekend, but that's just what she wanted us to believe.

I wonder more what drives conspiracy theorists to percieve such elaborate alternate realities which are always full of omnipotent evil, deception and destruction? It leads to such an insidious belief of powerlessness, paranoia and impotence by the individual. Why the believer would so firmly root themselves in that, even in the face of considerable contrary evidence and logical inconsistancy is beyond me.