Project: Savage Flux 5T

[thzero]

That might work. Got a link to the 3.3revo convert? Or is that the one that has the engine above the center diff?

No problem, more than happy to discuss project or something similiar! :)

Originally Posted by Bondonutz

OK, what about fabbing a new motor plate that would not need to butch up the chassis and use a motor mount like Mikes for the 3.3Revo convert ?

I'm not trying to drive you crazy just trying to help and weigh options for myself for when I start my own. Thanks for your time.

[Finnster]

@ Bondo.

I looked at this when I converted my Sav XL. Specifically using an old RCM N-Revo mount, or making somethign similar. The trouble is that the TVPs are only 74mm wide, and the spur gear is centered. Therefore, for 44mm+ diameter motors like Neus, you don't have a lot of gearing options and still be able to fit in the TVPs.

IOW, from the center of the Spur to the TVP is only 37mm. Smallest spur avail is 43T (45mm) where OEM gearing for flux is 44/20. A 20T Pinion is 22mm.

The motor is located below and offset from the tranny, but not so much that you have much room to move the motor and have many gearing options. The lower you can mount the motor and minimize spur and pinion gear sizes, the better.

[Bondonutz]

Originally Posted by thzero

That might work. Got a link to the 3.3revo convert? Or is that the one that has the engine above the center diff?

No problem, more than happy to discuss project or something similiar! :)

Heres some pics of mine
http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24072

As the all-mighty Finn has noted, this idea will not allow a wide selection of gearing ?
Maybe the trans can be offset by a 1/4-3/8" by trimming TVP to allow this ???

[thzero]

Well the stock Flux doesn't allow for wide range of gearing either. :) According to the gearing app here, the standard 44/20 might be overgeared.

Anyways, thats why I planned on going with my own tvps (if possible) that use a center diff in a truggy layout. It'd basically have a whole in the middle of the tvp in which a larger motor plate would reside.

Originally Posted by Bondonutz

Heres some pics of mine
http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24072

As the all-mighty Finn has noted, this idea will not allow a wide selection of gearing ?
Maybe the trans can be offset by a 1/4-3/8" by trimming TVP to allow this ???

[Bondonutz]

Originally Posted by thzero

Well the stock Flux doesn't allow for wide range of gearing either. :) According to the gearing app here, the standard 44/20 might be overgeared.

Anyways, thats why I planned on going with my own tvps (if possible) that use a center diff in a truggy layout. It'd basically have a whole in the middle of the tvp in which a larger motor plate would reside.

I totally agree, A CD would def be best but can't help to think about options.

I hope to try a CD arrangment first just for simplicity, a losi 8 CD should be great starting point since they are so readily availible. Just would rather have Aluminum supports for the CD. But the 3.3 Revo mount can still be used for the application via a custom made plate for these parts to reside.
And again to quote the "Mr. Finn" the Lower the better.

So, are you going to be useing the flux front and rear bulks and assemblys or are you going for somthing a little more exotic via FLM bulks ETC ?

EDIT, Heres an idea. Since the ground clearance is high and the TVP's are so tall, what about mounting a CD and running the Motor upsidedown . Low COG ???

[Finnster]

Its worth noting too that there are two different idler gears for the flux tranny, and the new BP diffs lower the GR from the old diffs.
I'm not quite sure you mean by offsetting the tranny, as it entirely spans the TVPs and also serves as a brace. Two notches are cut in the TVPs for two nubs on the side of the trans case to rest on the TVP notches for support. Its pretty much locked in place.

Note, I'm not saying its not possible, just care has to be taken in gear and motor selection, and some planning in the mounting the motor mount so it sits low vs the tranny so more lateral movement is possible. I don't think anything larger than a 15 series can be used w/ the tranny and have any hope of fitting inside the TVPs.
Mike's new universal CD mount would work great on this app, and just ditch the heavy ass tranny all together.

[Finnster]

LOL @ Bondo :) I know what my wife thinks about my "all-knowingness" and thinks I'm mostly "all-full-of-it".

I repeated a bit of what you guys said while I was typing.

Do you have any idea of the FDR needed on a 5T Flux?

The other problem I saw when I was looking at my Sav conversion was loosing the gear reduction of the tranny when going to a CD. The tranny has a ~2.2:1 reduction.

The bulletproof diffs are lower GR than the originals as well. 3.22 vs 3.42. With only a 3.22 reduction and no tranny, you need a big ass spur and small pinion to make a decent FDR. Of course, big ass spurs want to hang low out the bottom....

[Bondonutz]

Originally Posted by Finnster

Its worth noting too that there are two different idler gears for the flux tranny, and the new BP diffs lower the GR from the old diffs.
I'm not quite sure you mean by offsetting the tranny, as it entirely spans the TVPs and also serves as a brace. Two notches are cut in the TVPs for two nubs on the side of the trans case to rest on the TVP notches for support. Its pretty much locked in place.

Note, I'm not saying its not possible, just care has to be taken in gear and motor selection, and some planning in the mounting the motor mount so it sits low vs the tranny so more lateral movement is possible. I don't think anything larger than a 15 series can be used w/ the tranny and have any hope of fitting inside the TVPs.
Mike's new universal CD mount would work great on this app, and just ditch the heavy ass tranny all together.

This is where I'm at a disadvantage because I've never owned a Savy, So I'm stabbing in the dark with my ideas.

Originally Posted by Finnster

LOL @ Bondo :) I know what my wife thinks about my "all-knowingness" and thinks I'm mostly "all-full-of-it".


Do you have any idea of the FDR needed on a 5T Flux?

Well I pretty much agree w/the wifey. I'm just being repsectfull sir.

Sorry FDR ?? I'm a little slow sometimes.

[thzero]

Mmms.. you have a point there. Truggies are running a 4.3 reduction.

Originally Posted by Finnster

The other problem I saw when I was looking at my Sav conversion was loosing the gear reduction of the tranny when going to a CD. The tranny has a ~2.2:1 reduction.

The bulletproof diffs are lower GR than the originals as well. 3.22 vs 3.42. With only a 3.22 reduction and no tranny, you need a big ass spur and small pinion to make a decent FDR. Of course, big ass spurs want to hang low out the bottom....

[Bondonutz]

Originally Posted by thzero

Mmms.. you have a point there.

Agree, did not compute in my pathetic brain until quoted.

Edit, Pardon me for not thinking this through prior to posting.
What about a 1527/1500KV motor on say 8s with a CD, the gearing will still be ugly high for the application ?

[nitrostarter]

Originally Posted by Bondonutz

Agree, did not compute in my pathetic brain until quoted.

Edit, Pardon me for not thinking this through prior to posting.
What about a 1527/1500KV motor on say 8s with a CD, the gearing will still be ugly high for the application ?

Most definitely. 44,400 rpm's and a fast FDR sounds like a high speed running rig. The standard flux f/r diff ratio is 3.3 and the bulletproof is 3.22 so they are relatively high speed compared to Truggy(4.3).
In order to run a CD would would need a lower KV motor or big spur/little pinions, which tend to wear out faster. Even on 6s with that motor, you would need about a 15/51 pinion spur combo and still push 50+ mph.

[thzero]

Mmms, you'd need a different pinion for the front and rear diff. Instead of a 13 tooth pinion, you'd want to use a 10 tooth pinion. This would give you the same gear ratio with a center diff as a truggy. Or if using the bulletproof diffs, you'd need to run a 7 tooth pinion instead of 9 which would give you a 4.14 ratio so you'd need like a 47 to 52 tooth spur and a 11 or 15 or so pinion.

Basically you'd need someone to machine a replacement for parts #86031 or #102246. Or try and replace the diffs with something else. What is the ratio of the Cen diffs?

[Bondonutz]

Originally Posted by nitrostarter

Most definitely. 44,400 rpm's and a fast FDR sounds like a high speed running rig. The standard flux f/r diff ratio is 3.3 and the bulletproof is 3.22 so they are relatively high speed compared to Truggy(4.3).
In order to run a CD would would need a lower KV motor or big spur/little pinions, which tend to wear out faster. Even on 6s with that motor, you would need about a 15/51 pinion spur combo and still push 50+ mph.

Originally Posted by thzero

Mmms, you'd need a different pinion for the front and rear diff. Instead of a 13 tooth pinion, you'd want to use a 10 tooth pinion. This would give you the same gear ratio with a center diff as a truggy. Or if using the bulletproof diffs, you'd need to run a 7 tooth pinion instead of 9 which would give you a 4.14 ratio so you'd need like a 47 to 52 tooth spur and a 11 or 15 or so pinion.

Basically you'd need someone to machine a replacement for parts #86031 or #102246. Or try and replace the diffs with something else. What is the ratio of the Cen diffs?

Uuug, more comlpications
Maybe getting the Flux trans to work is best then.
Thank you for the explinations on the gearing aspect gentlemen.

[Finnster]

The cen also has a 9t pinion. Be happy they have the BP diffs now, as the CENs are 26/9 (2.89)

On my heavy xl, I have a 1050 kv 1521 on 8s. FDR is 17.1. That's only 40ish, but I'm still pulling enuf amps to make the esc quite warm (90A.) The motor can take more power tho.

[Bondonutz]

Originally Posted by Finnster

On my heavy xl, I have a 1050 kv 1521 on 8s. FDR is 17.1. That's only 40ish, but I'm still pulling enuf amps to make the esc quite warm (90A.) The motor can take more power tho.

This sound s like a very impressive set up Mr. Finn, could I burden you for some pictures or a link pleeze ? Very curious of your ESC choice .