3/10/11 Hawaii Tsunami Warning

[JERRY2KONE]

Amen to that brother. I guess you are right there. Most of the nuclear plants in operation today were built quite some time ago, and either need to be upgraded in many ways or replaced with a much better designed facility that makes us feel safe and can stand up to things that we have not yet experienced in our lifetime. We already know that Mother Nature is a lot stonger and a hell of a lot more experienced than we will ever be, so it is about time we start thinking in ways that will lead us into a future of uncertanty and dangers that we know are coming, but just have not reached us yet. If these reactors have the ability to kill millions of people than we need to make sure if there COULD be any kind of accident that these thigns are easily overcome with a large sealed pool of water and container that will withstand a blast bigger than anything we can do in this day in age to protect it from caticlismic events that all of the scientists have talked about and agree are going to happen at some point. We have to stop thinking in the context of 50 or 100 years and more to the scale of 1000 years just to keep from destroying our own civilization.

[Jahay]

Exactly!..

IMO... im quite disgusted with Japan. The technological forefront of the world! and they couldnt see this coming???
Everyone knows that being on the ring of fire, makes them susceptible to these forces... and having a terribly, outdated design of a nuclear power plant extremely vulnerable to the most powerful elements just doesnt make sense???

Here in the UK... we are not susceptible to earthquakes or tsunamis, so our outdated nuclear power plants are probably ok... (at the moment they are closing all of our plants and building new ones anyway... which is not good as it makes us completely dependant on European power for the next 10-15 years when electric power is in the most demand ever, and the encouragement to use electric cars etc is being pushed and bills are just going up... things just dont make financial sense right now... but whatever)

I think it is about time that everyone looks at their situation and evaluates and creates emergency plans on how to tackle situations in case they were to arise again... This has been ANOTHER huge wake up call and we have to act on it!

[Arct1k]

Actually in and around the UK there has been about 7 earthquakes in the last 30 days!

Year Mo Dy Hr Mn Secs Lat Lon kmE kmN Depth Mag Locality Int Other information
map 2011 03 21 12 33 12.1 52.411 -2.183 387.6 279.3 8.2 1.3 KIDDERMINSTER,WORCS
map 2011 03 18 10 27 42.8 53.315 -1.795 413.7 379.8 2.5 1.4 BRADWELL,DERBYSHIRE 4KM WSW OF BRADWELL
map 2011 03 17 21 47 21.5 52.259 3.174 753.0 275.0 16.1 2.2 SOUTHERN NORTH SEA 100KM ESE LOWESTOFT
map 2011 03 15 11 17 03.2 47.909 -0.728 495.0 -220.5 5.0 2.1 NORTHERN FRANCE
map 2011 02 26 04 30 16.3 61.932 2.031 611.5 1345.6 37.4 3.6 NORWEGIAN SEA 260KM NE OF LERWICK
map 2011 02 24 01 41 55.3 57.732 -4.616 244.3 874.3 8.1 1.0 DINGWALL,HIGHLAND 15KM NW OF DINGWALL
map 2011 02 22 00 38 50.9 55.837 -6.296 131.1 668.8 8.9 1.3 ISLAY,ARGYLL AND BUTE

In Japan the reactors survived the actual earthquake with minimal issues - It was actually the wave that took out the backup generators for the cooling system. Once the quake hit the main power line were cut off.

Engineers can only design for so much - normally 6 sigma which means one day probability states something bigger will happen than what you planned for. Its just one of those things in life.

[Jahay]

lol artik the largest one is derbyshire at 2.1 haha of course we have earthquakes but no where near as large as japan as we are not on the edge of a plate....

And yes you are right artik... but my main concern was due to the design of the reactor... They stored spent fuel rods directly above the reactors? Maybe it makes things easy and efficient... but was not the greatest idea?

obvisouly i dont know much about this area... but the back up generators should never have failed...

Ii guess you live and learn... i just believe... yes we can afford to make mistakes, but this was a mistake we would have all like to avoid.

[JERRY2KONE]

I too was going to pipe in about quakes in Brittain because when I lived there we had a few tremmors that I remember (1977-1980, & 1985-2000). I was living up in Scotland at the US Navy base in Holy Loch, but living in Glasgow when a nice tremmor hit knocking off chimneys and such.

Anyway yes I to believe that we should live and learn from the mistakes we make long the way and improve not only our structures but also our standards. This did not seem to be the case in Japan. As stated storing spent fuel rods overhead while efficient for moving to and from the reactor proved to be a huge misclaculation that has created a very hazardous situation that otherwise could have and should have been avoided. This was a problem as stated that has been known about for about 30 years, but yet no one took any action to correct or improve the design. That rests clearly on the shoulders of GE and the people who were inspecting the sites and not seeing it as a problem.

Just like what we do here in trying to improve the overall original designs of these R/C vehicles in ways that make them what? Thats right "BULLITPROOF". Yes sometimes we fail or create other issues that tend to be a bit annoying, but still they are made to put up with so much more than the original designer ever imagined or cared about.

[pinkpanda3310]

As stated, everything in Japan is built to survive earthquakes not 10m tsunami's. That particular plant was due to be shut down in the next year or so because it's outdated.

Good point about the bulletproofing Jerry but for most household things redundancy has been built-in to last just outside the warranty. A small part of the reason China has grown so much (no warranty). I know building a reactor should have no limitations but of course there was cost equated into putting the spent rods over the reactors. They nearly got the full life from the plant without a hitch but now there are dire consiquences.

[JERRY2KONE]

So whats new with this as I have not seen much of anything in the last few days. Just wondering if they finally got cooling hooked up and running or not. Plus is there anything else about radiation problems other than the fact that had shown up in Tokyo's drinking water? It's tough not having any kind of TV news to watch. Plus what I have seen on the net is pretty much none existant. Cheers.

[pinkpanda3310]

They did get power hooked up but I'm not sure if they were able to fire up the running systems yet. They also have an inclination that reactor 3 is more damamged than previously thought. A few of the workers have been hospitalized with burns.

The wife is sleeping now. I'll ask if she knows more tommorrow Jerry.

[JERRY2KONE]

Hey thanks for the input. I just got off the internet watching the updated video CNN news reports. From what I could gather the cooling system was badly damaged and it now appears that it may take weeks or even months for them to get things up and running again. The reactor you mentioned seems that it may have a hole in the core container, which is very bad in deed. It is considered that this is where the major radiation leakage is coming from, and leaking into the ground and into the air. The workers that were hurt were apparently working deep in the facility when they stepped into some water that was 1000 times over the acceptable limit of radiation exposure, which caused very bad burns to the skin and will likely cause them serious radiation poisoning.

One of the experts interviewed within the last 24 hours stated that this containment exercise will likely go on for months before they will make any notable progress because of the damage to the plants, and the fact of these spent rods are either still hanging over the reactors, or have fallen into the reactor building. The news on their efforts just keeps getting worse.

Funny thing. I noticed two days ago that there was a silent video on the web showing a very large cemente pumper truck dumpping concrete into one of the reactors from above the fifth floor level of the building. I was kind of wondering what in the hell they might be trying to accomplish with this action, but now that this breach information has become public I have to assume that they have known about this for a few days and have been trying to close it up with concrete. I guess the reaction of the press saying that the power company is/are not telling us everything and are hiding details from everyone else is very true. They are not just trying to repair the damage, but covering their butts on this mess.

I spoke with a friend of mine in Korea, and they are having daily meetings there to discuss Japan's progress and how they can protect themselves in Korea from the fallout radiation. California is already beginging to see signs of radiation levels rising over their western shores because of the prevailing winds, but say it is nothing to worry about(YET). Most if not all of the countries who purchase food and supplies from Japan have haulted all imports for the time being in order to keep from receiving radiated products and contaminating their own people. In the meantime Japan is pulling bodies out by the hundreds in the cleanup & recovery efforts. One report stated that there are litterally millions of Japanese people still without food, water, or electricity two weeks into this disaster. Tokyo looks like a ghost town most of the day, and production in many areas is so low that the businesses are begining to go under. The local farmers will have to close up shop because none of their products are allowed to leave Japan. A very large portion of the food produce will end up bankrupt and no one knows if or when any of this will turn around considering how long it will take to get the reactor plants under control and then how long it might take to recover from the radiation contamination damages. This will likely go on for a few years. Man this is the worst hit we have likely ever seen on any countries economy. From #3 to in the toilet.

A lot of other countries are haulting nuclear construction and demanding reviews of all of their nuclear programs. Some want all of their reactors shut down and dispanded for the protection of their people. The amount of nuclear waste has many in fear of where all of it is going to go. We can not keep producing nuclear fuel with no place to safely store it.

[BrianG]

This goes to show just how precarious economies can be.

[hemiblas]

I'm reading about this stuff and its just crazy. These are people that are trying to feed their families and now they cant continue to own their business which means that they will be out in the streets. Infants cant drink the water. As a parent that would just make me sick everyday if I didnt have bottled water. I'm not sure what these people are going to do or where they are going to have to go. Its really scary thinking about it.

I think everyone knows that you cant trust the utility company up there. We probably cant trust anyone either because even if radiation levels started to surge on the West Coast, I doubt there would be a public service announcement as there would be a mass exodus from California. I'm sure we would be lied to just to keep the calm.

[E-Revonut]

I'm pretty sure I have already said this in an earlier post but I will say it again. I sincerely feel bad for Japan and it's people, they are in a horrible predicament. However I look to the positive side of this as well. With nothing leaving Japan and being imported to the US this may give some companies here a chance to thrive. Even if they are small businesses it would be good to see our economy rebound.

[George16]

The bad thing about this situation is for TEPCO and the Japanese government wasn't very open and forthcoming with what's really going on. They tried downplaying the whole situation from the beginning. We went from a posture of not getting underway to get underway within 96 hours after the experts and technicians brought in by the US government found out that there was a higher level of contamination than what the Japan is putting out to the public. Trust me, it's very daunting to get an aircraft carrier transition from repairs to be able to safely get underway on its own power within 96 hours. Work was 24 hours around the clock. We were not allowed to go home and take care of our families until late in the evening.

I tell you what though, it's all about politics. The 4 star admiral of the Pacific command wants us back in Yokosuka but other powers to be had other plans for us which they are not sharing at all. I think they jsut want to give the perception that we left the Japanese to tend for themselves because right now, there is no naval asset in port in Yokosuka. Besides, sailing aimlessly or making circles/donuts in a square box in the pacific ocean is not a morale booster at all. I was just glad my family was able to leave 3 days ago and not worry about the radioactive fallout. We have members of the Navy Nuclear team onboard our ship to help us ensure we have cleaned and decontaminated the ship.

[pinkpanda3310]

Originally Posted by George16

The bad thing about this situation is for TEPCO and the Japanese government wasn't very open and forthcoming with what's really going on. They tried downplaying the whole situation from the beginning.
I tell you what though, it's all about politics.

Ain't that the truth. Kind of expected it though, very typical of how some gov'ts like to play things out.

Good to hear you and your family are in a safer place Lito.

[JERRY2KONE]

I am not surprized about our Gov pulling you guys out of there after seeing just how bad off the nuclear plant status really is. The spread of radiation is already creating an environment very unhealthy for human life, and it will surely get worse the longer things are not brought under control. With persiverance I am confident that they will eventually find a way to get things calmed down, but what I do fear is the amount of contamination that will be experienced up to that moment is going to be a catastrophy of its own. And why would our Naval forces want to be left in the midst of such a inevitable situation when they well know that things are going to get worse? Remove all forces that are not, and can not directly effect the outcome of the nuclear contamination. Otherwise would be placing our forces in harms way when it could be avoided. I also have to wonder what is being done for the US ground forces left behind during this chrisis? The more people they move away from this potentially very large disaster the better. Not just Americans but anyone that they can get out of harms way would be a blessing. The only people who need to be there are the ones who are contributing directly to the containment of the problem.