Neu and Mamba Max Combo

Hey guys,

I was just getting ready to buy a Neu 1515/1y. I've been running my Feigao 7XL setup for a bit now and feel comfortable that this power range is where I want to be on the track. It's quite close to insane without actually getting there. I have had a couple of instances on the straights where the back wheels really hooked up and the front wheels came off of the ground, but on the overall, it's quite controllable.

I've been having good luck with the 7XL/MM combo, but it's cold here right now. It's going to start warming up again in a month or two and what I mean by warm up is 90F+ temps with very high humidity. I want a system that is going to run cool.

So, here is the questions. I've heard of few people having cogging problems with the MM/Neu combos. I recall someone actually frying his MM during one cogging fit, and GD says that it was a problem that developed and then progressed over time. I had a bit of a cogging issue with my 7XL, but a new Deans connector fixed that.

Is there anyone running a Neu/MM combo and not having any problems? I'm really chomping at the bit to buy my "final" motor and if the Neu is going to be a problem, then I'll just go with the Lehner 1940/7 "hi-amp." I'm just not up for waiting around for Castle to release a firmware upgrade. That could be a long while. I do have the idea in the back of my head to just grab a Quark, but the MM is so easy to tune and it fits nicely in my setup.

Oh, and does anyone know if the RC Monster heatsink will fit the Neu smooth can motor? I'd like to be able to use that heatsink because it's easy to drill and tap for mounting a fan directly to the sink. I always run fans as an insurance policy.

[standard_63]

Is the 1515 1Y a match fot the 1940? I thought the 1515s are bigger motors?

[Sower]

Great post - I'm dealing with the exact same question right now. I just bought a CRT Pro and will be building my system around the MM controller. I've heard the same thing about the cogging. Hopefully GD, Serum, or a few other guys will chime in.

By the way, what vehicle are you running this in?

[glassdoctor]

Well I wish I knew what to say. It's really hard to put my finger on it... just when I think the MM/Neu is too much trouble, I go out and have a good time racing with it will just a minor amount of cogging. I almost forgot all about it and was just racing whcih was nice. That was with the same MM that has been in my CRT from day one.

I don't recall any time where I put the car down and watched it stutter enough for anyone to notice... it just always "worked".

But then after the races were done I went back out and messed around a few laps... I remember jumping the triple in front of the drivers stand (no double-single in practice :)) and rolled it. A kid flipped me ove and when I tried to go I got that massive cogging where it actually kicks backwards.. couldn't get it to go. So I just called it a day... we were in a hurry to get home 3 hours for me.

So I'm back to being really confused about the whole thing. It's the dead of winter here, or I would be out running it in the yard, etc for more testing.

In the CRT, it has always been pretty consistent in the cogging dept... I get a very subtle cogging maybe half the time, and a noticable stutter like 10-20%, and bad stutter less than like 5%.

On the track it has rarely been a problem becaue there aren't many times you are stopped. So the odds are in your favor.

There is also a rare occasion when I have seen it "cog" while moving... possibly the same glitch in the system that I have seen with the stock MM in my 1/10 cars. It has a bad "glitch" and then keeps running. That happened once during the races last weekend.

It's hard to give up on the MM due to the great software programing and the great feel of the system. My Mtroniks Truck works pretty well but it doesn't feel as smooth. My old MGM 120 hasa great throttle and start-up but the brakes are absolutely HORRIBLE.

I have yet to try a Quark... I guess I am giving CC the benefit of the doubt that they will fix the MM soon enough. Still no word on the update...

BTW, the Monster sounds like it will be summer rather than spring. Of course CC doesn't say much about it but it sounded like there won't be anything until late spring at the earliest. I think they have too many irons in the fire right now and the MMM isn't priority #1. That's the only logical reason why they don't have it out already.

[BrianG]

I had the same thoughts for my buggy; get a MM and 1940, or a Neu and the Quark. I ended up with the Neu because the 1940's were not in stock, plus they seem to take longer to come in. I ended up with the Quark because 1) It is better sized for 1/8th scale applications IMO, 2) it has troubles with Neu motors, 3) I do not want to use a fan to cool the MM, and 4) there is no easy way to add a heatsink to the MM if I decided to do so.

IIRC, the Neu motors have a 40mmD for smooth can, and ~43mmD for the finned can. The LMT, Wanderer, etc are 36mmD.

[glassdoctor]

I guess this means you probably want a 1940 huh? Who out there is running a Mm/1940 combo?... probably a 140/8 high amp? I'm sure that's a sweet motor!

I would like to see what the temps/run time is like compared to the 1515, if anyone has both motors.

[Sower]

This is my whole debate. Neu or Lehner? You guys have seen some of the comments in one of my other threads I'm sure. I thought I was going to go with the 1950/7 hi amp, but I'm still not 100% on it. I'll be running a CRT like GD, so if anyone has MM experience with that - that would be great to know.

Also, do the Neu/MM cogging issues have anything to do with the batteries? Would it matter if the batteries were a high quality like an Enerland? What other issues could it be?

[glassdoctor]

I don't think it's the batteries... the MM has a hard time reading the backEMF or whatever it uses to "read" the motor and get it to fire. Basicly the MM expects to "see" teh same thing as with the CC motors, but the Neus are made different and confuse the poor little MM. :)

CC says it should only be a minor tweak to the software to make the MM compatible with them but you would think they could hurry up a little since it's so easy for them to fix. Or maybe it's not so easy after all?

[Sower]

So the big question then is if the Lehner has that same backEMF that the Neu does. Is this because the Neu is a 4 pole motor and the Lehner isn't?

[jollyjumper]

i'd have to say, yes it is because nue is 4pole.

[BrianG]

IIRC, someone here posted that Castle said the LMTs would work much better on the MM since they are 2 pole.

Also, the Neus have a relatively low turn count. The number part of the model (eg: the "2.5" part of 1512 2.5d) is the turns count. That's 2.5 turns, which is really very low. I wonder if that means the Nues are highly inductive, which can make it harder to drive? High inductance loads do funny things to AC current and voltage and tend to be harder on electronics.

[glassdoctor]

RotaryRocket has run the MM with the Pletty Max... that's a 4 or 6 pole? He says it works awesome.

Seems that 2 poles is best right now... but I don't know if it's relaly about the # poles. CC talks about the contruction of the motor being different... I wonder if it has more to do with the stator design/material or winding pattern.

[BrianG]

Yeah, Neus are constructed different now that you mention it. The windings are wrapped around ferrous cores to concentrate the magnetic energy while Wanderers and the MM motors are simply wound on the inside of the can (effectively an "air core"). I don't know how LMTs are constructed with respect to this.

Maybe it's a combination of the low wind count and the winding scheme?

[Sower]

Originally Posted by BrianG

Yeah, Neus are constructed different now that you mention it. The windings are wrapped around ferrous cores to concentrate the magnetic energy while Wanderers and the MM motors are simply wound on the inside of the can (effectively an "air core"). I don't know how LMTs are constructed with respect to this.

Maybe it's a combination of the low wind count and the winding scheme?

And the number of poles too?:027:

[glassdoctor]

yup ;)