So what's with UE?

I've been following UE for a few years and I don't see it coming back to what it was. I'm really surprised to see genIV servo saver back in stock, as well as the 6 & 8 spyder kits. I really think Robin has lost interest and with the other things he's making I don't see it coming back. I don't think you'll ever see a Razor in production.

There was a thread in UE forum some time back where he unloaded about the crap he has to put up with, folks stealing his designs, constant complaints about prices, costs, taxes and so on. Copycats that scab his ideas and sell them for cheaper prices than he can cause they cut corners he won't. It frosts him to see these guys be successful like FLM.

He made a statement in that thread the his V-Rod project had been an eye opener for him - his products were appreciated, he never had a snippy, contrary word about his prices and they weren't being ripped off.

Its taken me two full yrs to get a SM pulled toghether and I'd still like to find a set of straight 8mm cvds. I'd buy em new in a hearbeat if they were available. CVD drive pins - pieces you gotta have to run, good luck with finding those. UE is really about the ultimate in everything for that type platform and for the top, you have to pay the price.

[ClodMaxx]

i totally agree, duster - 100% dead on (and welcome over here, btw =). robin doesn't strike me as someone very strong on patience - and i've read many a rant from him - to add to your list, he's also very anti-Bush and his outsourcing to foreign countries for a cheaper wage/tax cuts campaign, and has said in threads that he's feeling a lot of pressure to do the same. i think he's fed up. combine that with the fact that - let's face it - the maxx platform is now becoming more and more outdated. truggies and buggies are in, and the hottest, most hip r/c's to buy are trucks like the revo and the 8ight, among many others.

the funny thing is that 6 months ago UE had just about everything in stock: VBS, just about every driveshaft, EXT and RacerX, and most all the spare parts for them. then they all immediately started going out of stock and have stayed that way. had i known it would get to this point i don't think i would've built my SM, as now i can't really push the envelope with it for fear of lack of replacement parts. it's still an amazing truck and UE parts are unmatched...but as you've pointed out, robin seems to be on to bigger and better things. IMO, there are most likely more people with harley's wanting a gas tank nearly double the size of stock vs. people like you and i that are willing to drop $2,000-$3,000 to make a radio controlled SM.

[squeeforever]

Originally Posted by Duster_360

Copycats that scab his ideas and sell them for cheaper prices than he can cause they cut corners he won't. It frosts him to see these guys be successful like FLM.

Why would it frost him to see a company like FLM to thrive? It makes no sense. There parts aren't really similar, aside from the VBS/FLM Hybrid thing, which even then, its not really that similar. Now Integy, theres no denying that, but I'd figure they paid him for the Racer X rip off...

[Procharged5.0]

Originally Posted by squeeforever

Why would it frost him to see a company like FLM to thrive? It makes no sense. There parts aren't really similar, aside from the VBS/FLM Hybrid thing, which even then, its not really that similar. Now Integy, theres no denying that, but I'd figure they paid him for the Racer X rip off...

The last time I spoke with Robin he said the legal cost to fight the Integy knock offs of his products was too costly. Add in the "international" factor and you can see he'd probably invest $15,000- $20,000 on a legal retainer just to get started.

F'ing Chinese!

[ClodMaxx]

Originally Posted by squeeforever

Why would it frost him to see a company like FLM to thrive? It makes no sense. There parts aren't really similar, aside from the VBS/FLM Hybrid thing, which even then, its not really that similar. Now Integy, theres no denying that, but I'd figure they paid him for the Racer X rip off...

the FLM hybrids......the FLM multi-point adjustable shock towers...the FLM chassis is very, very similar to the Lightning...etc.

not as *direct* of a copy as the Integy crap, but FLM makes everything much cheaper b/c they cut corners. yet they sell a lot more than UE b/c people who don't know any better (or might, who knows) don't want to pay UE prices.

plus, FLM is about as direct a competitor as it gets. although most parts may be fairly different in design, it's the same replacement parts, same materials, for the same vehicles.

The 4 point chassis brace design as an idea belongs to UE, nobody had thought of that before UE. ClodMaxx has mentioned some other items already. Everything UE has done has been to look at each of teh critical components of the platform and engineer them thoroughly so you get breakage free top performance, Super 6, CVDs, 6 & 8 spyder diffs, 4 point braces and so on. That takes time in development and that costs money. Those costs go into parts pricing otherwise you go out of business or revert to parts that don't perform as well.

UE could shut them down legally if he had spent big bucks and the time to get his stuff patented, but he saw it as a no-win deal and since business has been declining (RC parts side) looks like he made the right call. Besides, as pointed out there is spotty to non-existent patent enforcement if you're making the stuff outside the US.

Another that really has caused a serious rant from Robin was ACNCM - they started their business with a gov't loan that Robin couldn't qualify for since he's native born citizen. They are Indian IIRC, and started knocking off UE stuff immediately. ALl these knockoffs use 6061-T6 and not teh 7075-T6 like UE uses. I don't know if its because its cheaper (it is cheaper and its weaker too) or to try and avoid too much direct infringement. I guess thats one of the corners they all tend to cut.

I worked in retail early on in college, and one thing you learn is the public has no end to their gaul. There is nothing somebody won't ask to do or ask to have and usually expects for free! I've seen someone post a quest on UE forum about why UE stuff wouldn't fit right with FLM pieces (early on when flm was having bugs in their hybrid diffs). He seems to have finally learned to just ignore it, but come on, that's pretty low class. Like its his fault someone who is copying his designs in the first place aren't getting the holes in the right places!!

I watched UE store stock deplete down to near nothing also like a dolt. Like Jim Mora used say "woulda, coulda, shoulda done something!!" Doh!!