Novak 1/8 Conversion kits

[NovakTwo]

Originally Posted by BL_RV0

i doubt they will. theyll just sell the convs or 1/8 e-buggies and slap that hv-crap on there and call it macaroni.

Why would we go through all this design phase, not to mention the high tooling costs, to slap the same "HV crap" on it?

By the way, Novak is one of few companies offering affordable HV (4s LiPo) systems---ESCs and motors----and we have had them available for several years. Reliable HV crap isn't as easy to design and build (service) as many would like to believe. (If it were, CC and Tekin and LRP would have released HV car products years ago.)

[lincpimp]

Actually I have seen a few Hv systems on 1/8 buggies. They are lighter in weight, and the lower kv (6.5?) novak system may work well with a smaller pinion. Not sure about this though.

General concensus seems to be the Novak system is not optimal for a heavy vehicle with high gearing. I am sure the intended use in the emaxx was not more than 35mph, given their gearing recomendations of around 70/14.

There is not a hv system other than the novak at the moment. We get to mix and match various products to get the job done, which is ok if you know what you are doing. The Novak system must appeal to the beginner, or a lighter vehicle owner looking to go brushless. I am sure alot of them have sold.

[Serum]

i doubt they will. theyll just sell the convs or 1/8 e-buggies and slap that hv-crap on there and call it macaroni.

Easy here; we are all friends. I would like to know a specific motivation why you post something like this.

[suicideneil]

Me too. I'll be the first to say to someone asking, that the Novak Hv systems arent ideal for heavy trucks/vehicles, but I also always say they are great for lighter vehicles (stock Emaxx, which is what they were originally designed for after-all), or for beginners who need something reliable & simple. Nothing is perfect in life, but provided one chooses their options carefully, you'd be suprised just how good the HvMaxxes actually are.

Hello,

Originally Posted by NovakTwo

After waiting for years for another company (one for whom a conversion kit would be among expected product offerings) to offer conversion kits, Bob decided to design them himself.

This way we can offer nitro conv kits specifically designed for Novak HV products. The 5mm shaft rotor (upgrade kit) has been approved, so we will probably do the press release for it in a few weeks.

Well, color me surprised - but happy. While I hope the current smaller, creative and innovative companies (like our own RC Monster) continue to exist and even thrive, I'm glad to see a true "main stream" company like Novak joining the fray. 2008 is the year this class will get noticed.

My only advice for you (Novak) is that I hope your 1/8th electronics are up to the performance of your race grade 1/10th electronics. Back in my old days of racing 1/10th, Novak was the best. Orange was in all my vehicles. The current HV products just don't seem up to the same quality as your 1/10th race products. Perhaps racing was not the target market for the older HV stuff, and that's fine but 1/8th is a race class. We need race grade stuff. Motors that can deliver performance and speedo's which can handle the heat. 5 minutes doesn't cut it anymore. When I run against Nitro I need something which can handle 15 or better yet 20 minutes of punishment.

Build it right and Orange will be right back on top.

DM

[NovakTwo]

Thanks for all the inputs on this thread. As i commented on another thread, innovators in R/C products are always in short supply---so support them when you can. Novak was a kitchen table operation for years before we became a "real company". Looking back 30 years, it's something of a miracle that we are still around....

I recently shared the "HV crap" comment with Bob and he's always legitimately perplexed by such criticism (probably because he doesn't read forums regularly!) He said that he's been testing the conversion set-ups with the existing HV BL system---with the 5mm shaft rotor.

I agree that our HV products are badly in need of a makeover and they are pretty far along in the design/prototype phase. The existing items were originally offered as (reasonably priced) upgrades for the E-Maxx size vehicles. At that time, LiPo wasn't a serious consideration.

My only advice for you (Novak) is that I hope your 1/8th electronics are up to the performance of your race grade 1/10th electronics. Back in my old days of racing 1/10th, Novak was the best. Orange was in all my vehicles. The current HV products just don't seem up to the same quality as your 1/10th race products. Perhaps racing was not the target market for the older HV stuff, and that's fine but 1/8th is a race class. We need race grade stuff. Motors that can deliver performance and speedo's which can handle the heat. 5 minutes doesn't cut it anymore. When I run against Nitro I need something which can handle 15 or better yet 20 minutes of punishment.

When racing 1/8th Electric, are there any price caps or motor/esc requirements or regulations? ROAR enforces a $129.00 LP for modified BL motors, which will limit future innovation. If there are no 1/8th scale price limits, how much would racers be willing to pay for high performance motors and controllers? In what ways do you think the quality of our HV systems needs to be upgraded.

As before, comments and suggestions welcome.

[suicideneil]

I cant speak about racing requirements, though a racing spec esc/motor & a normal 'bashing' spec esc/motor system would be the easiest way around that.

As for what I would like to see improved with the Hv systems:

*Higher voltage esc, 6s lipo/18cells if plenty
* Greater range motor KVs
* Stronger motors- larger magnet basically like the Feigaos (but better quality/efficiency)
* Better amp handling- the HvMaxx is rated at 400amps?, but it struggles with the 4.5 motor, so better Fets are in order- I think griffinRU would be the best person to comment about that really.
* Plugs on either end of the sensorwire harness- makes life easier when working on the truck.

Not a massive wish list, and fairly basic requests I reckon- so long as its more torquey, just as reliable and handles high amp draw well/better, I would be extremely happy.

[riceman]

Thanks for your input on the forum and for being open to our input as well. As far as prices that racers are willing to pay you can look at what we currently are paying for what little there is available to us. $250-$300 for MGM and Quarks is not uncommon. Most of us aren't willing or able to do that when you factor in another $250 for a higher end Neu/Lenher/Plett motor. The bottom end would be an $80 Feigao with a $130 Mamba Max. If there were an off-the-shelf raceable motor/esc combo for somehwere in between that range I would very seriously consider it. Currently my setup of choice is the Mamba Max/Neu combination.

Originally Posted by NovakTwo

When racing 1/8th Electric, are there any price caps or motor/esc requirements or regulations? ROAR enforces a $129.00 LP for modified BL motors, which will limit future innovation. If there are no 1/8th scale price limits, how much would racers be willing to pay for high performance motors and controllers? In what ways do you think the quality of our HV systems needs to be upgraded.

As before, comments and suggestions welcome.

Rules? As I mentioned, we are basically all red-headed step children. There are few organized classes. Personally, the largest organized event I race with my Electric CRT conversion has been the RC Car Action Monster Madness race where we have a "Brushless Open" class. E-Maxxes, E-Revos, and other Brushless conversions all race in an anything goes type class. I've also raced at the RC Car Action Battery Blast race where there has been an Electric Monster Open and an Electric 1/8th buggy class. Again open, no rules.

Price? I'm a firm believer in "you get what you pay for..." Many of us are using very expensive ESCs. My Schulze 18.97 was about $400 when new however today many of us on 4s are using the Castle Mamba Max (about $140). For motor, there is a wide range. On the low end are Feiago's at around $90 and on the higher end are the Neu's at about $275. This class has not been cheap. However there is much buzz from three companies. Yours, Castle and Tekin. I think the general feeling is that when you three release products, price should come down.

Quality? I base my feelings on the experience of a racer at my local track. I'd be happy to give you his name offline but his HV system has been back to Novak something like 9 times, several of which were handled by the main man, Bob Novak himself! Two weeks ago at the RCMTRA race, he was running his HV system on 14 cells in a modified E-Maxx, at 6 minutes into the main, it went into thermal shut down. At the time it was about 50 degrees F outside in early Nov! His truck has no where near the power and speed of mine using a $90 Feiago motor.

Looking forward to seeing your next generation products.

DM

[johnrobholmes]

Roar has been the worst thing for RC electric innovation in the world. It is good to see that the 1/8th scale electric classes are open minded about what it takes to further the sport.

[JThiessen]

I dont understand the continued bashing of a product as low quality just because it doesnt have the power that someone wants. As stated before, high performance parts are very high maintenance. If you have ever worked with REAL high performance stuff, you will realize that you have to constantly maintain your vehicle, and that things break when you start pushing the power range. Power in=broken stuff out. (Should have been one of Newtons laws!) A marketable, high performance motor/esc, that also has a decent amount of reliability, is a hard thing to achieve. Me, I'll live with 35 mph in exchange for several years of use.
I think this type of bashing often reflects the amount of thought the poster puts into things (not all though, I hate to generalize). I doubt if there are any more Novaks sent back in than there are MGM's, MM's, etc. How many posts have we seen about the poor customer service from these other companies.
Geez, we finally see a good thing coming, and the boo-birds cant resist the opportunity to show their stuff.

[ClodMaxx]

i'm happy to read that Novak is interested in innovation. they could just continue to push the current HV line, and people (not us in this small power hungry segment) would continue to buy it. it's great when companies like Novak ask for suggestions, and listen, to better and expand their product line.

i had a HV 6.5 in a heavier-than-stock maxx for over a year with absolutely NO problems. but i followed the instructions and didn't overgear it. sure it wasn't as fast as i would've liked, but the power and speed was better than the stock titans - just as advertised.

look at Novak's crawling segment. when the first crawler system came out, it didn't have drag brakes. guys on the crawling forums said it was a great system otherwise, lots and lots of power, but that this feature was needed. Novak answered pretty quickly with a solution (quickly, considering all that most likely went into that software revision).

i think between the new systems that Novak, Tekin and Castle are coming out with, PLUS this new conversion kit that Novak is developing... we're about to see a new frontier!

[ssspconcepts]

Originally Posted by JThiessen

I dont understand the continued bashing of a product as low quality just because it doesnt have the power that someone wants. As stated before, high performance parts are very high maintenance. If you have ever worked with REAL high performance stuff, you will realize that you have to constantly maintain your vehicle, and that things break when you start pushing the power range. Power in=broken stuff out. (Should have been one of Newtons laws!) A marketable, high performance motor/esc, that also has a decent amount of reliability, is a hard thing to achieve. Me, I'll live with 35 mph in exchange for several years of use.
I think this type of bashing often reflects the amount of thought the poster puts into things (not all though, I hate to generalize). I doubt if there are any more Novaks sent back in than there are MGM's, MM's, etc. How many posts have we seen about the poor customer service from these other companies.
Geez, we finally see a good thing coming, and the boo-birds cant resist the opportunity to show their stuff.

Couldn't agree with you more...and here is one more law to add to Mr. Newton's list: "Garbage in=garbage out"

I had a Novak HVMaxx 4.5 in my FLM Maxx (all aluminum). The truck is/was a real lead sled...however...I FOLLOWED THE INSTRUCTIONS AND GEARED CONSERVATIVELY AND NEVER HAD ANY PROBLEMS. In fact I did a demonstration at work on how RC vehicles could rapidly "deliver" small payloads (weighing approx 35lbs) and the HVMAXX never went into thermal shutdown---even with excessive breaking and heavy accelleration. I am not advocating for their product...I am just saying perhaps one should read the directions, which are generally included in the packaging. I am excited to see what Novak comes up with.

[ssspconcepts]

Originally Posted by NovakTwo

Thanks for all the inputs on this thread. As i commented on another thread, innovators in R/C products are always in short supply---so support them when you can. Novak was a kitchen table operation for years before we became a "real company". Looking back 30 years, it's something of a miracle that we are still around....

I recently shared the "HV crap" comment with Bob and he's always legitimately perplexed by such criticism (probably because he doesn't read forums regularly!) He said that he's been testing the conversion set-ups with the existing HV BL system---with the 5mm shaft rotor.

I agree that our HV products are badly in need of a makeover and they are pretty far along in the design/prototype phase. The existing items were originally offered as (reasonably priced) upgrades for the E-Maxx size vehicles. At that time, LiPo wasn't a serious consideration.



When racing 1/8th Electric, are there any price caps or motor/esc requirements or regulations? ROAR enforces a $129.00 LP for modified BL motors, which will limit future innovation. If there are no 1/8th scale price limits, how much would racers be willing to pay for high performance motors and controllers? In what ways do you think the quality of our HV systems needs to be upgraded.

As before, comments and suggestions welcome.

Well, I just shelled out $300 for my Neu and another $400 for my MGM...obviously if you could minimize the pain a little I would be very grateful!

I can't speak to the regulations question...I am a backyard racer/basher. I will say this...I think you should (like you have done in the past) cater to several different types of customers. There are a lot of young folks out there that can't afford $700 for an ESC/Motor combo. There are also others like myself that will pay whatever you want as long as it is top quality merchandise. Then there are the racers...which there are plenty of them here to tell you their thoughts.

[BP-Revo]

I've always been a pretty big advocate of the 4.5 system. I especially liked the smooth startup and high revving design of it. High rev is what you need in racing. It was one of the few systems that would have a very linear acceleration curve from a dead stop to the top, and even keep pulling into the "over-rev."


I had the original HV4400 in an E-Maxx for a while, and it was very reliable. Power seemed pretty significant at the time (a stock chassis E-Maxx isn't exactly a stable platform).

When I got my G2R I first threw in a HV6.5. Was very powerful and fast, and more than enough for the small track I was running on (small in relative to my G2R, at least). When I picked up some 8000mah Lipo's it really brought it to life. Throttle response was very very snappy. Somotimes it was hard to believe it was 'just' a 380 rotor. I did continuous ~40 minute runs at race pace and the system didn't choke one bit. ESC ran a good 120, motor 95. The one thing I wished it has was more top speed. I knew once I hit a bigger, MT sized track that I would need more top speed.


When I got my 4.5, I was even more happy. It ran like a 6.5 with an extra 30% more top end. Pretty much just what I wanted (I could have asked for maybe, 5 more mph than I was getting, but I was content). However, the system fried on me when I was just driving around outside my house (not even race pace!).

Many others that have the HV4.5 and run Lipo have fried theirs as well. I have come to my personal conclusion that the HV ESC, which was released with the original 4400, is just not up to the task of the newer, more powerful HV4.5.

So, it is my suggestion, and biggest hopes, that you guys will "beef up" the HV ESC design if you decide to keep the HV4.5 as a system, because when used with Lipo its simply too much.

Second, I also greatly hope you guys increase the rotor size. A high revving 380 sized rotor may be plenty (and sometimes too much) for racing most 1/10's, but in 1/8th its just not enough. If not a full sized 540 rotor, maybe at least go to a 480 or something near 540. However, I would still like to see you guys keep the high-revving characteristics that most of your motor systems have.