MMM availibility date dropped!

[BrianG]

The main thing to look at is the efficiency "band" of a particular motor. I wouldn't dream of running Feigaos at anywhere near that speed, but a better quality motor surely can handle it fine and remain in its efficiency band. IIRC, the motor program Griffin posted a while back shows that the 15xx Neus are quite efficient at speeds upwards of 50k+. Granted, I am assuming that the CC Neu-based motors will have similar characteristics as a "real" Neu, but it should be somewhat close.

And don't forget that the total rpm will be affected by the current draw. Higher currents = lower real kv value.

And we can't just look at pure unloaded rpm efficiency. There is also load efficiency too. A motor running at it's sweet rpm, but loaded heavily by tall gearing may be just as inefficient as the same motor running slightly higher rpm but geared more ideally.

I guess we won't know exactly how these motors will perform until the system is released and someone can get some numbers posted, but I don't think it will be as bad as some think...

[cart213]

Everyone tosses around the 35K rpm rule as if it's one of the Ten Commandments of brushless. "Thou shalt not exceed 35,000 rpm, or thine motor shall surely suffer!"

Maybe it's true, maybe not. I know it applies to a low quality motor like a Feigao, but what about a high quality Neu? I've never seen a detailed study showing motor temps at different speeds. Neu rates their motors at 60K max. I don't know if that has anthing to do with efficency, or if that is simply the limits of the bearings.

I do know that the mildest MM motor, the 4600, spins at 34,000 rpm with only a 2S lipo. And we all know that most people run MM motors at much higher rpm's than this. Are there different rules for a 1/10 motor vs. a 1/8 motor? I know that the bigger motor has a higher rotational inertia, but how much does that affect the efficiency of the motor at a certain rpm?

Until we see this new motor in action, none of us really knows how well it will run on 6S. I'm sure it won't be too bad, though, or Castle wouldn't risk the potential warranty costs.

With all that said, I still hope the 1700 and 1500 motors come out soon.


edit: Brian, you beat me to my point!

[jhautz]

Originally Posted by johnrobholmes

Sure it might not be optimal for every vehicle, but name ONE motor that is.

Exactly.


In reality, I personally dont really care what motor they offer at this point. Just get the controller released. Motor chioce is not the problem, there are tons of options for motor choice. Its getting a controller that performs the way we want, and if the controller can handle a 1515 sized motor with those kinds of rpms and vehicle speeds I cant wait to get my hands on one.

[bdebde]

The only problem I see with the 2200kv motor, is gearing low enough in some setups due to motor running into something before a small pinion meshes. Other than that I have no problem running 50,000 if the motor can handle it. I run Big Maxximum (2300kv) on 6s no problem, and have even run a 7XL (similar kv) on 6s as well. Of course the XL will get much hotter than a better motor, but it gets no hotter than it did on 4s!

[crazyjr]

I already have the 2.5/1515 (1700kv) on 4s its a bit slow (20/51, maxx/gorilla tranny w/1/8 buggy diffs) I know mike makes a 22 and 24 pinions, on 5s its awsome with the same gearing. I like the 2200kv motor for 4s racing, My track runs RC Pro rules and that will allow me to run my electrics in nitro. Whoever said that speeds to match Nitro's is correct, my 5s powered revo is just too much for the track, it accelerates faster than my V-spec 8T, which is very impressive for a .21 truggy

[gixxer]

I think some of us are going to be a little disappointed because we thought they were going to release different motor options.
I will be happy to finally have a reliable esc with built in bec. I personally wanted the 1500kv motor, and wouldn't of sold two of my neu's if I knew this a few weeks ago.
Now I am glad that I atleast kept one neu (1512 3d).

[tom255]

I think some of us are going to be a little disappointed because we thought they were going to release different motor options.

As sombody told: "You can satisfy one people but not many of them at once"

Be patient and for sure other motor options will come, 1500KV/1800kv/2200KV and everybody will be happy :)

[DrKnow65]

"You can make some of the people happy, some of the time. But you can't make all of the people happy, all of the time."

2200KV is fine. I could even see CC keeping the lower KV motors for later just to keep the public from going past 6S for fear of killing their low cost neu style motor. Sooner (than) later there will be guy's like GriffenRU who will figure out how to run the MMM on 8S <warantee gone> and will need lower KV stuff, so castle will see the $$$ in putting them out.

As for a power packiage for converting 1/8th nitro's I thing 6S and 2200KV will be just right.

[lutach]

Castle would've satisfied 99% of people if they had just released the controller first and then worry about the motor.

[Dagger Thrasher]

I don't think they would. There are a LOT of other RC'ers out there who aren't brushless-brains, and who just want a powerful system to drop into their E-Maxx, for example. An ESC on it's own isn't going to be hugely attractive to them, as they still won't really know what motor to choose...and it's tricky. A combo, complete with motor, will be the perfect ticket for a LOT of people. Sure, many of us here would like the ESC on its own, but there's a whole other market for those who just want a complete system to drop in.
There aren't really an "ideal" big motors out there for the less knowledgeable guys; Feigaos are inefficient and fall apart, and Neus are nice but very expensive. The CC motor should be just the ticket.

[lutach]

I'm pretty sure those guys will have deep pockets too. They will need to do a lot of up grading for the drive train to hold up to all the RPMs and torque from what they'll be offering. Most people that are new to brushless woud've been fine with a cheaper motor to get used to it before going to a nice Neu or any other high end motor.

[Haldir]

I can buy 7 feigay motors for the price of one neu.

[cart213]

A 1515 is about $280. Where can you get an XL Feigao for $40?

[Dagger Thrasher]

I'm pretty sure those guys will have deep pockets too. They will need to do a lot of up grading for the drive train to hold up to all the RPMs and torque from what they'll be offering. Most people that are new to brushless woud've been fine with a cheaper motor to get used to it before going to a nice Neu or any other high end motor.

I see your point, but that's not what I mean. A great deal of people won't want to have to hunt around, working out which motor they should go for, etc; they just want a system to drop right in. Even if some did choose their own Feigao, you all know how easy it is for them to overheat in the wrong setup. Or just plain fall apart. And with the new E-Maxx, that's easy; it doesn't require any upgrades to handle brushless power (the new E and the MMM seem like the perfect couple to me!) Plus, the CC motor should be one of the first big motors to offer good efficiency and physical durability at an affordable price.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter. Roll on the MMM!

[lutach]

I can get them for bellow that if I buy 100 units and that was in 2005. I'm sure I can get it for less if I try negotiating a bit.