Monster Max 8S plans?

[TexasSP]

Originally Posted by myndseye

Hey Patrick, I still humbly put in my request for more current handling instead of more voltage handling. An indestructable esc at 6s is all most rc'ers will ever need. 350A continuous would make it perfect.

Talk about inefficient and lots of heat. Why try and produce 7700 watts with 6s? Higher voltage at lower amps producing the same wattage is much more efficient and be much more reliable.

The MMM specs are just fine for 6s.

[myndseye]

Originally Posted by TexasSP

Talk about inefficient and lots of heat. Why try and produce 7700 watts with 6s? Higher voltage at lower amps producing the same wattage is much more efficient and be much more reliable.

The MMM specs are just fine for 6s.

I don't want to produce any more heat, and I also don't want battery packs all over my cars. I want a controller that could care less about burst currents, spikes, shorts, drivetrain bindings, and overgearing. A controller that can surpass a batterys ability to harm it under extreme operating conditions, would be way better than high-s for all my applications. I have absolutely no desire to make a vehicle for me to ride on, but 5 or 6s 10,000 would be a good reason to put two packs on something. I have given plenty of controllers "the business" and thermaled them, when the battery and motor were fine. My MGM can take it with no problem, where the Monster overheats. If Castle were to make a 275+ continuous controller thats more affordable, everyone who has had to drop a couple of teeth to make their setup happy, will thank them.

[Dagger Thrasher]

Originally Posted by myndseye

I don't want to produce any more heat, and I also don't want battery packs all over my cars. I want a controller that could care less about burst currents, spikes, shorts, drivetrain bindings, and overgearing. A controller that can surpass a batterys ability to harm it under extreme operating conditions, would be way better than high-s for all my applications. I have absolutely no desire to make a vehicle for me to ride on, but 5 or 6s 10,000 would be a good reason to put two packs on something. I have given plenty of controllers "the business" and thermaled them, when the battery and motor were fine. My MGM can take it with no problem, where the Monster overheats. If Castle were to make a 275+ continuous controller thats more affordable, everyone who has had to drop a couple of teeth to make their setup happy, will thank them.

If you're thermalling an MMM, you're doing something seriously wrong. I don't think there's a single other person on this board who's actually managed to thermal one yet; current-wise, they can handle *plenty* enough. And even if it could handle yet higher currents, this wouldn't have any effect on its ability to withstand high ripple voltages. It's an independent issue.

Besides...a true 275A controller like you're talking about would be simply too big to be practical in 1/8th scale. And if you used such a controller in larger models, the current throughput of the whole system due to the 6S limitation would render the whole system insanely inefficient and unreliable.

[SV6000]

Geez a 12s monster 2215 NEU for MAXX and REVO anyone??

[Dagger Thrasher]

I don't know about that, Lutach. If people treated true continuous ratings as burst, then they wouldn't be using half the ESC's potential. IMO that's a bit too conservative to be sensible, and besides..it depends on what length of time you define to be a burst. Just my opinion though, there.

I would love to see a ESC, battery, wires, connectors and most important the copper traces found in the ESC handle 120A continuous.

That's just it; the MMM can handle a solid, sustained 120A for any given length of time from what I gather. Patrick himself has mentioned their 120A bench-test they've done on MMMs; the whole shebang handles it.
Agreed on the KO ESC's ratings...they made me laugh when I read them. Obviously they're just FET-specs, but it's just ridiculous.

[lincpimp]

I have to side with Lutach here. You need a big wire to handle 120amps at 20v without it getting hot... And by handle, I mean continuously, for minutes...

[lutach]

Originally Posted by Dagger Thrasher

I don't know about that, Lutach. If people treated true continuous ratings as burst, then they wouldn't be using half the ESC's potential. IMO that's a bit too conservative to be sensible, and besides..it depends on what length of time you define to be a burst. Just my opinion though, there.



That's just it; the MMM can handle a solid, sustained 120A for any given length of time from what I gather. Patrick himself has mentioned their 120A bench-test they've done on MMMs; the whole shebang handles it.
Agreed on the KO ESC's ratings...they made me laugh when I read them. Obviously they're just FET-specs, but it's just ridiculous.

Try this test and gives us feedback: Get a airplane motor mount, hook a nice big motor along with a nice big prop, try to achieve 120A and keep it at 120A and see what happens. Just keep in mind some of the burst our vehicle see might be upwards in the 200A for a short burst on hard start ups. After the vehicle starts rolling that number takes a nice dive like the "Stock" market lol.

[Dagger Thrasher]

Originally Posted by lutach

Try this test and gives us feedback: Get a airplane motor mount, hook a nice big motor along with a nice big prop, try to achieve 120A and keep it at 120A and see what happens. Just keep in mind some of the burst our vehicle see might be upwards in the 200A for a short burst on hard start ups. After the vehicle starts rolling that number takes a nice dive like the "Stock" market lol.

I'm not suggesting that we use setups that have a consistent current pull that's almost at the limit of the controller; that would obviously be foolish, and asking for trouble. I thought you were referring to keeping *any* current bursts (including startup) below 120A.

Mynd's eye, that's fair enough, and it sounds like you really push your kit hard. If you don't mind my asking, what setup do you run on the Monster? And what MGM do you use? Castle aren't planning (that I'm aware of) any significantly higher-current controllers because very few people would need that capacity; instead, they're going higher voltage of people that need more gumption. A higher-voltage system in many of your apps would be much more efficient at even higher power levels, even if your MGM can take it. But then again, if you're happy with your MGM, just use that. Or, retrofit extra cooling to the MMM.

[myndseye]

Right now I have my Monsters on my buggy, truggy, and IGT conversions. The off-roaders participate in our enduro style races, and the IGT is an ultimate have fun car (great paint scheme, lights everywhere, aluminum wheels, and I paln on putting in the RangeVideo FBV (fly by video) system in so I can DBV. All three of these are similarly set up. Various Neu 1512's running between 3 and 5s but really setup for 4s. The hottest setup I have on a Monster is the IGT's with high gearing (Mike's 20T pinion) and a 1512 1D. Way past what any of you guys would ever consider, and arguably pushing the limits on paper. But these motor and voltage combinations never thermal, and it is mostly the batteries that are the worse for wear. Runtime is just ok, efficiency is lower, but the performance is unchartable. This level of performance is common-place within our group.
The setups that the Monster can't handle are obviously more demanding. My ultimate speed IGT2 has a Neu 1527 .5y with 30T pinion on 6s, run by the MGM 28025 and my MCD Race Runner has a 1527 1D run by the same MGM and the same 6 cell pack. The Monsters cannot handle the latter two, but only miss by minutes because of thermaling.

[Dagger Thrasher]

Well, maybe I read wrong at some point, though I thought that's what he stated (along with 120A being roughly the max current that can be expected from 10AWG); literally, for minutes. Not sure about the voltage. Tekin did the the same thing with the RX8 at 130A, as the Prez mentions it in that RX8 thread in their forum. Not that it really matters I guess. The Monster can handle plenty of current for most of us.

[lincpimp]

Originally Posted by Dagger Thrasher

Well, maybe I read wrong at some point, though I thought that's what he stated (along with 120A being roughly the max current that can be expected from 10AWG); literally, for minutes. Not sure about the voltage. Tekin did the the same thing with the RX8 at 130A, as the Prez mentions it in that RX8 thread in their forum. Not that it really matters I guess. The Monster can handle plenty of current for most of us.

That is true. I have logged quite a few 4s runs, and they peak at 125+, but average is around 40amps. The MMM is a great esc, that is for sure.

[sikeston34m]

Originally Posted by lincpimp

That is true. I have logged quite a few 4s runs, and they peak at 125+, but average is around 40amps. The MMM is a great esc, that is for sure.

+1

I have quite a few runs on my MMM V2! I couldn't be happier with it.

It has been ran mainly on 4S, but has seen some 5S and 6S runs as well.

For Monster Truck use, I don't know if it can get any better than this.

On 6S, I have seen the fan cycle on and off. On 4S, I wouldn't know if the fan even works if it didn't come on when I first switch on the ESC.

My current setup may be considered mild to most. It's an E Revo with a Medusa 36-60-2000kv gearing 18/52 Mod 1. Tops out right at 40mph on 4S, but will almost hit 60mph on 6S and has torque out the wazoo.

Patrick, when can I buy an 8S Monster from you?

[TexasSP]

Realistically it looks like you are comparing apples to oranges in this deal. The MGM 28025 is over twice the cost of the MMM and designed with a different purpose.

I had the MGM 16024 and the MMM at the same time and running the same setup, same truck, same batteries, I could never get the MGM through a run without thermalling. The MMM has never thermalled on me and have have pushes it much harder. Keep in mind I had the latest updates from MGM as well and could update via the web. The MGM start up routines were lacking as well, basically the firmware is nowwhere near what the MMM has in it.

I am not saying MGM is junk, but pound for pound and dollar for dollar, the MMM beats it in everyway comparing the same level controllers, and the MMM is still 100 cheaper.

[bdebde]

Originally Posted by TexasSP

Realistically it looks like you are comparing apples to oranges in this deal. The MGM 28025 is over twice the cost of the MMM and designed with a different purpose.

I had the MGM 16024 and the MMM at the same time and running the same setup, same truck, same batteries, I could never get the MGM through a run without thermalling. The MMM has never thermalled on me and have have pushes it much harder. Keep in mind I had the latest updates from MGM as well and could update via the web. The MGM start up routines were lacking as well, basically the firmware is nowwhere near what the MMM has in it.

I am not saying MGM is junk, but pound for pound and dollar for dollar, the MMM beats it in everyway comparing the same level controllers, and the MMM is still 100 cheaper.

The 16024 was their last generation esc, the 28025 is new generation, which may also make a difference (plus higher current handling). I run a 16024 in my Muggy, and have also tried a MMM in it as well, and I will say that the MMM is a step above that particular MGM model.

[myndseye]

I whole heartedly agree with you both. I too have owned and burned previous generation MGMs to the ground. I've owned three 22418-3's, and none of them lasted long. This was pre Monster, so there was no other choice back then. These newer ones are far more reliable, but still have the quirks that make them fall out of favor with the masses, price included. This is the reason I am here making my request. It would be the best thing ever to get the programability, smoothness, and support service of a Castle product, wrapped around the brute strength of an MGM. The great Castle price point, wouldn't be bad either.