What kind of performance would the Tesla have

[snellemin]

Nice arguments and loved to read both point of views.

I'll put my take on the laptop batteries, as I used them in my rc's. The 18650 cells that I use put out a burst of 45A and go flat in 2-3 seconds. I can only get up to 5A continuous out of them in 1p configs. Tesla is just gay for using them in a car.

[JThiessen]

Another roadblock for EV's is the transportation industry, and the AG industry.

Those vehicles (buses/trucks/tractors) must be able to run for 18+hrs a day, and do it under much more demand than these passenger cars.
I for one was really disappointed that GM never really followed through with the hybrid diesel systems. I really believe that a Diesel fired generator would be ideal for my truck, and many of the farm/transportation trucks.

ps. Lutach - your argument is sound. But until you actually build it, test it, prove it, all it is is an ideal. Get us these "magic" cells, and we'll help you prove it!!!!

[lutach]

Originally Posted by JThiessen

Another roadblock for EV's is the transportation industry, and the AG industry.

Those vehicles (buses/trucks/tractors) must be able to run for 18+hrs a day, and do it under much more demand than these passenger cars.
I for one was really disappointed that GM never really followed through with the hybrid diesel systems. I really believe that a Diesel fired generator would be ideal for my truck, and many of the farm/transportation trucks.

ps. Lutach - your argument is sound. But until you actually build it, test it, prove it, all it is is an ideal. Get us these "magic" cells, and we'll help you prove it!!!!

It can be done JThissen. Like you said, a hybrid diesel and a few hub motors or axle motors would be ideal.

All the things I've said and posted have been tested by not only our US Military, but a few race cars that got scrapped pretty quick. If the Military is using it in various vehicles then you know it must be good. The way this economy is going I need to make sure my little one will not fall short of the magic $$$$. If I had $100K to spare right now, I would get a nice pack made with the actual not magical cells and I can send you datasheets and military test results if you would like to see it. I've contacted a few folks in the race car community, but they don't seem to understand this technology yet. The problem that is keeping anyone from making an awesome EV are the big corp. companies. I can think of many advantages for going electric in general and still make the oil giants happy. It seems that nobody has come up with that pitch yet though lol.

[lutach]

Forgot to mention this again, but here goes. Tesla did not get started with their own ideas. They got the TZero from AC Propulsion as a loaner to get potential investors and they nailed one called Elon Musk, but now Mr. Musk took over and the founders (Not sure if only one is not with the company) are not there anymore. Now Tesla claims to have their own technology, but it's still the same old AC Propulsion technology, but they claim to have a version of the drive train that puts out more power.

I should loan a Prius load it with about 500lbs. of extra battery and show it to potential investors to see what would happen . Tell them I have 500lbs. less then the Tesla and get an actual 200mpg to see if they fall for it.

[JThiessen]

Data sheets are fine for theory - I'm more interested in the dynamics of real world system tests. Stick these cells in a system, beat the living snot out of it - hopefully until they fail, and see where the down side is with them, then improve them, or build in the fail safes needed. Then compare it to what others have done (like Tesla).
There may be an upside to the lower C systems. I would liken it to the difference between Diesel and Gas powered vehicles. You can have a 400hp/600ft-lb gasoline motor, and a 300hp,600ft-lb diesel. The spec sheet on that car would be fantastic compared to the diesel - but I wouldn't pick the gas motor for towing.

Take your data to a respected automotive engineering college. I suspect you will have open ears (and minds) there. The downside would be give open liscense to a technology, for them to develop further. The upside is that it is good for all of us down the line.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by JThiessen

Data sheets are fine for theory - I'm more interested in the dynamics of real world system tests. Stick these cells in a system, beat the living snot out of it - hopefully until they fail, and see where the down side is with them, then improve them, or build in the fail safes needed. Then compare it to what others have done (like Tesla).
There may be an upside to the lower C systems. I would liken it to the difference between Diesel and Gas powered vehicles. You can have a 400hp/600ft-lb gasoline motor, and a 300hp,600ft-lb diesel. The spec sheet on that car would be fantastic compared to the diesel - but I wouldn't pick the gas motor for towing.

Take your data to a respected automotive engineering college. I suspect you will have open ears (and minds) there. The downside would be give open liscense to a technology, for them to develop further. The upside is that it is good for all of us down the line.

Datasheets of real world testing, not just datasheets of the cells I mentioned. In fact, one of the cells was pushed even further then what the datasheet stated. Some tanks have a nice hybrid system. You think some of those jet powered tanks are actually propelled by the jet engine? No. One of the drive train I can get was meant for a 200mph+ race car, but the program was scrapped due to some fools testing out part of the system in another country and it caused some major damage mainly due to human error. The car itself was fully tested and would've made history if the program continued. All the stuff I talk about have been fully tested, but somehow never makes it and who knows the reason why. I've contacted major scientist in regards to very high C rate cells and they all said, the higher the C rate of the cell the higher charge rate it'll allow. The only upside so far of a lower C rated cell is the price, but things can change with new technologies. I like the power of a diesel and it has proven itself, but the addiction to gas seems much higher than expected.

Good thing you mentioned to take my data to respected automotive engineers and I have done that. Not only that I have given my data to most engineers that work for companies I sell Electronic Components to and they were amazed on how easy it can be. Most of the electronic engineers told me I can go from NY to CA and back to NY on a single charge. Now the automotive engineers told me it could never happen, but they were amazed on the data I showed them. The only things is, they don't know where to get the technology and my main ideas were not mentioned. Ford (Brasil), GM (Brasil), Fiat (Brasil), Toyota (Brasil), Mosler (USA) and a few more. They all listened, but they a seem brain washed except for Mosler who definitely showed an interest.

Now I said a 41Ah cell (Not as powerful as the others, but a medium power cell) was used in a voltage similar to the Tesla's voltage and that set up and they got 120 miles out of it. That same set up was also used in some race cars with similar results. So the technology is fully tested and not something I'm making up.

[zeropointbug]

Originally Posted by lutach

Forgot to mention this again, but here goes. Tesla did not get started with their own ideas. They got the TZero from AC Propulsion as a loaner to get potential investors and they nailed one called Elon Musk, but now Mr. Musk took over and the founders (Not sure if only one is not with the company) are not there anymore. Now Tesla claims to have their own technology, but it's still the same old AC Propulsion technology, but they claim to have a version of the drive train that puts out more power.

I should loan a Prius load it with about 500lbs. of extra battery and show it to potential investors to see what would happen . Tell them I have 500lbs. less then the Tesla and get an actual 200mpg to see if they fall for it.

Yeah! And get this, they fired some 100 employees by some email... an email!!! What the F#$K !? How would you feel if you got fired in such a manner? No one really knew that they were fired even a month after the emails were sent out, and IIRC, the guy who sent the emails was fired after as well! What a horrible company, that is another reason why I am boycotting them.

Not to mention they are a disgrace to the name Tesla. They should be destroyed.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by snellemin

Nice arguments and loved to read both point of views.

I'll put my take on the laptop batteries, as I used them in my rc's. The 18650 cells that I use put out a burst of 45A and go flat in 2-3 seconds. I can only get up to 5A continuous out of them in 1p configs. Tesla is just gay for using them in a car.

That is was I was trying to get at. If Tesla made a simple passenger car then they wouldn't need a great battery to make it go around and that 1000lbs. would last a while before needing a charge, but they claim the Tesla Roadster to be a sports car. I've been asking people what they think about the current EV and the answers are surprising. I asked one guy that does own a Tesla and he loves it, but I guess he doesn't know there are better technology available now that would make it such a better vehicle. Now with $520+ million of our tax money, would they change? I hope so, but so far I haven't seen much.

I knew you were going to come here as your laptop powered R/C looked nice.

I think someone in a Tesla did a little race from Chicago to California (Not 100% sure), but it took them quite a bit of time to get there. That is not a very good selling point or marketing tool I would let people know about if that was my car.