Libya's Violent Rebellion & other ME revolutions

[TexasSP]

I didn't suggest anyone demanded the war with Iraq, although no one forced any other country to become involved. My point was how people want us to continually help them (ie: send money and aid) yet b&m about everything we do.

As far as the UN is concerned sorry but I don't feel we need their permission or blessing for anything we do. I personally believe the UN has passed any usefulness it ever had and needs to move it's operations off US soil and find it's financial support elsewhere. Just look at who the UN has allowed on the Human Rights Council to see one of many points of why I do not support them. I also tire of putting up with Russia and there crap, they are not a friend or ally and never will be. Don't trust them and never will. There is a good number of my fellow citizens who would agree on these points.

We are a wealthy country, however our supplies are tapped and it's time we get ourselves out of debt and stop allowing our politician's to piss our futures down the drain. Our national and state debt has surpassed our GNP which is ridiculous. Government has no business getting into that kind of debt. In fact I believe most debt is unnecessary and our governments should be pay as you go not tax as you want to spend it. Of course I also don't believe our rights are given to us by government but that we are born with them.

Unlike many, I am an issues focused person and don't sway to one party or the other based on some odd sense of loyalty. I have no interest in the extreme left or extreme right as both are more about power than anything. How they want to take it is the only big difference but the fact is they want to take it. I lean heavily libertarian in many ways and want a whole lot less government involvement in everything.

[PBO]

Originally Posted by TexasSP

I didn't suggest anyone demanded the war with Iraq, although no one forced any other country to become involved

Not forced. Coerced, compelled, threatened - they are more appropriate

George Junior & his admin said that countries were either with the US or against, this is a strong, aggressive & devisive statement. Along with that current & future trade deals etc all hung in the balance for those countries sitting on the fence. It's far from an invitation

I find your own opinion "As far as the UN is concerned sorry but I don't feel we need their permission or blessing for anything we do" ironic & if I assume you are an average thinking US citizen then doesn't that validate my original point that the US needs to work on it foreign policies? any other country that expressed that sentiment would be labelled as all things bad by the US

[TexasSP]

Originally Posted by PBO

Not forced. Coerced, compelled, threatened - they are more appropriate

George Junior & his admin said that countries were either with the US or against, this is a strong, aggressive & devisive statement. Along with that current & future trade deals etc all hung in the balance for those countries sitting on the fence. It's far from an invitation

Yeah, it was tough talk and part of propaganda. However, what did we do to those that didn't come along? That's right, nothing. You make it sound as if we would have nuked someone had they not have joined us. If I recall correctly most countries did little more than give token support with very few exceptions. Of course these same countries in turn wanted more than a token's amount of the benefits received from the invasion as well.

If you analyze the war in total many foreign businesses got some pretty sizable contracts out of the deal. Take Turkey for example who made a amount providing logistic services alone.

Of course others condemned us out of one side of their mouth but also had no problem bargaining for contracts as well and reaping other benefits. Some have even made quite lucrative careers for themselves being US bashing aficionados.

For more information in regards to this I recommend checking out ww.Stratfor.com which is a strategic geo political analyst group specializing in this type of information. They are also strictly non partisan and provide real world intelligence from all angles.

Originally Posted by PBO

I find your own opinion "As far as the UN is concerned sorry but I don't feel we need their permission or blessing for anything we do" ironic & if I assume you are an average thinking US citizen then doesn't that validate my original point that the US needs to work on it foreign policies? any other country that expressed that sentiment would be labelled as all things bad by the US

I feel every country can do their own thing without approval from the UN. I don't recognize the UN's power/authority over sovereign nations and neither should anyone. I don't see how it's ironic. Just because talking heads run their mouths about on situation or another doesn't necessarily reflect the populous at large. With Russia a major part along with all the little rogue nations full of hard core dictators I can't see why anyone would recognize that farce which is the UN.

I never said that other nations do and most people here don't believe they need our permission to do anything. However if another country is accepting money from us, then yes we have a right to have a voice in there actions when it can affect us. This is just like any investment. However, in reality I would prefer we not give money so freely to others and especially those that don't have our interests in mind.

On another note what is Australia doing in regards to foreign policy which is so much superior to ours? When I look closely it seems to me Australia has it's own fair share of issues facing it as well. I am just saying everyone loves to point and bash the US as it's quite the sport across the globe but what happens when it's pointed inward? It also seems to me as your suggesting that we should ask others permission before we make moves but others should not have ours? Maybe I am misreading this but it's how I took it.

I think in many ways you are assuming I support everything our government does. However, the point I am trying to make is that I want a whole lot less government involvement in everything period. I want a whole lot smaller government period. I am all for our government being less involved in cleaning up others messes and trying to police their activities. I also don't want foreign governments telling us how to run our borders and enforce our laws as our closest neighbors so like to do. Especially when they have benefited so heavily from our proximity to them.

We will sit on our continent and maintain a large and modern military here and if someone jacks with us or our interests we can take them out them come right back home. Kind of like how Jefferson handled events around Tripoli back in his time.

[PBO]

Originally Posted by TexasSP

Yeah, it was tough talk and part of propaganda. However, what did we do to those that didn't come along? That's right, nothing. You make it sound as if we would have nuked someone had they not have joined us

Nuked I was thinking more along the lines of trade reductions & economic harm rather than violence. It was a fairly crazy time, with a lot of media generated fear, governments needed to act for their people, demonstrate solidarity & maintain alliances. Difficult when there's a superpower doing all the tough talking

Originally Posted by TexasSP

I feel every country can do their own thing without approval from the UN. I don't recognize the UN's power/authority over sovereign nations and neither should anyone. I don't see how it's ironic. Just because talking heads run their mouths about on situation or another doesn't necessarily reflect the populous at large. With Russia a major part along with all the little rogue nations full of hard core dictators I can't see why anyone would recognize that farce which is the UN.

I wasn't neccessarily identifying the UN, there are a number of communities and alliances that consult each other before taking any action. Yes, this can slow the process down but often this is a good thing - a cooling off period if you like - & to be certain, I'm no fan of the UN either

Originally Posted by TexasSP

On another note what is Australia doing in regards to foreign policy which is so much superior to ours? When I look closely it seems to me Australia has it's own fair share of issues facing it as well. I am just saying everyone loves to point and bash the US as it's quite the sport across the globe but what happens when it's pointed inward? It also seems to me as your suggesting that we should ask others permission before we make moves but others should not have ours? Maybe I am misreading this but it's how I took it.

Australia is a little US, we like to have our way in our region & we are the peacekeeper/policeman. We exercise tough border control policies (which are often election issues) that challenge human rights. We want our cake & the ability to eat it too

As a nation we are very generous on our own terms & aid to neighbouring nations is provided relatively unchallenged although I can't quote you figures. We encourage trade over our own borders but will protect our producers & manufacturers (certain industries will say otherwise) to retain domestic industry & supply. We are selling off assets to foreign companies & countries faster than we realise or want to

We consider ourselves an ally of the US, UK etc and will engage globally as an ally. We are fearfull of some of our large neighbours like Indonesia & we enjoy the brownie points we earn as an ally

We consider ourselves as more egalitarian than not & get confused about a nagging sense of entitlement and our pragmatism. However we sleep soundly knowing we are a resouce rich country so one day that pile of dirt will be worth something if it isn't now

We are very defensive over our mate New Zealand although we hate it when they beat us in sport - bloody Kiwis. We will always help a mate & prefer to fix our own problems