Cloned Slipperential?

[BrianG]

Wow, a little off-topic here, but I'm gonna add a little more of my $0.02. It is VERY difficult to change the gov't because:

1) Everyone has a different idea of what "better" means. Some people are content to have the gov't take care of them with no thought or work needed on their part. While others want to work and make a better life for themselves and their family with minimal gov't intrusion.

2) The constant bickering between Repubs and Dems ensure accomplishments results in a net gain of 0. This is especially true when the administration is split pretty evenly.

3) When one political party becomes dominant in the administration, they spend 90% of their time undoing what the previous administration did and trying to implement their own agenda - only to have it reversed again during the next administration. Again, net gain 0.

4) As you said, gov't is too big. It's like trying to get a locomotive to stop from full speed and reverse direction in 30 seconds. The movie Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy makes me laugh bitterly every time I see it because those hideous looking species (the name escapes me ATM) are a perfect representation of our gov't.

[JERRY2KONE]

I agree with you BG. Thank you for the laugh. That was a funny comparison. Getting back on topic. This is exactly the problem that makes patents such a sorry tool for protecting our inventions. Two to three years just to get a patent, what kind of crap is that? What they do not use computers there. Log in the request, do a search to make sure there is not already one listed for the item requested, and finally issue or deny the patent.

[snellemin]

I agree with the gov being too big and corrupt. But that shouldn't stop you from living your life. I grew up with having things and losing it all to the corrupt gov. From being able to go to the store and buy food, to standing in line for monthly rations and hoping there is still some left when it's your turn. Like I said, make the best out of current your situation and strive for better.

The current Surinamese president is the same dictator that destroyed the country. Go figure that one out. The man killed every person in power and took out some villages. I lived 3 houses down when the revolution started and the dictator blew up the main police department. Scary times, but life went on.


Back on the patent issue.

Here at work the patents request go through pretty quickly. But that can also be because it's a big company. My buddy got his patent approved within a year.

[Cain]

looks like it is patented based on what was posted on a new site by the company in question:

The patented system reduce the stress to the drivetrain created by the high-torque brushless motors and LiPo batteries found in today's 1/8 scale electric buggies.

[RC-Monster Mike]

Yes...patented by me.

[Cain]

Ok. So its all worked out then as based on this:

http://www.area52.cc/news/647-team-c...er-clutch.html

The article makes it kind of sound like TeamC patented it? But if its really through you and they licensed it thats great then that you are getting the credit and rights as you deserve.

[RC-Monster Mike]

They did not get my permission, nor did they get their own patent - they are selling the same chinese copy under a different name. Saying the system is patented doesn't mean they own the patent or even are legally using it - I am sure it is meant to insinuate this, but it is not so.

Oh wow, that's horrible. There has to be something that we can do. I should of gone to law school..

[JERRY2KONE]

Once again this all goes back to sueing these idiots and having to pour you own hard earned money into trying to stop morons like this from stealing properly that does not belong to them. It can be a very costly game of cat & mouse. Just another example of how corrupt our system is and how it is not working very well.

[Krawlin]

Maybe this has been said already, I didn't feel like reading the entire thread, but what about just refusing to sell your products to anyone ordering from China or other outlying nations known for pulling this kind of thing and where it is difficult to take legal action against them? I mean, it's too late now as far as the slipperential goes, but just as a future precaution should you produce another really innovative part like that, just refuse to sell to them. I mean, how much money would you really lose from a move like that, compared to allowing shipment of items to China and outlying nations known for this activity and losing business to a copied item?

[Bondonutz]

I have no idea what kind of business Mike has from Overseas(China), If it's only a few customers a month It's worth to keep selling to over there because if someone from China wants one bad enough to copy they could easily get their hands on anything that's for sale here in the states weither it be a RC-Monster part or Trojans. My guess anyway ?

[simplechamp]

Right, they could just have a contact in the US buy it for them, then send it over to China.

In the end, the only practical way to fight overseas cloning is to provide high quality, innovative products with excellent service and support. Build customer loyalty and offer the things that cloners can't.

[MonsterMaxx]

OK, my take on this whole patent infringement and China rip offs.

Keeping the products out of their hands is impossible. I personally witnessed a Chinese man going around a major race taking photos and video of innovative products with a high end camera. Shortly thereafter many of those products were offered thru known Chinese companies like Integy.

Yes, I have a patent and yes it has been infringed, no, there was nothing I could afford to do about it.

IMHO a patent for a small business in the US is really only good for marketing. You can NOT afford to enforce it.

As Mike probably knows, the patent itself costs $5-$20k and often takes 3+ years for approval. So there’s your first expense.

Next is the changes our good buddy Obama has pushed into law. That is ‘first to file gets the patent’. This is hugely disadvantageous to small businesses who have often put everything into R&D and can’t yet afford the legal fees for a patent. First to file means that if anyone catches wind of your project, they can go file for a patent having never even produced one item and exclude YOU from making it. Let them get their hands on it and they’ll use YOUR item for their patent application.
This is fine for big companies like Apple with teams of lawyers and dedicated testing personnel, but is NOT advantageous to small businesses.
It used to be that you had a year from your first public debut, that is no longer the case.

Now, what you can do once you get your patent. (Remember, you’ve probably already have spent $20k and have to include that in your product price, which China is likely already undercutting.)
Stop them at the US border. This is an ITC filing. What you do is hand your lawyer aprox $50k and they do a fast track filing with the ITC. Normally this can be completed in 6-12 months and the cost doesn’t usually exceed $100k. Once you win (if you win) customs will stop importation at the border.
There is NO financial recourse with an ITC filing, you only stop them at the border. Also, it’s YOUR responsibility to monitor the market and catch other importers using different channels and part numbers and descriptions. Of course, every time the copy cats take a different route, you have to catch them, give your lawyer the info and more $$ and wait for enforcement.
Fun right?
Now, next is you want to go after the company who is making these clones for real money. They are overseas, right. Get your big checkbook out, ‘cause the lawyer is going to want a $100k retainer and the total bill will be over $250k. Plan for a long fight with lots and lots of extra expenses.
You are suing a Chinese company? Good luck. First off, China does not respect US patents. So, no US physical presence, no chance of any $. Even if by some miracle you manage to win, you’ll never collect. Sueing in Chinese court, there’s a waste of time. A US company will NEVER win in Chinese Kangraoo court. Also to remember, many Chinese companies are supplemented by the Chinese government (reference Chinese solar panel industry which under cut prices by a huge margin and drove US companies like Solydara out of business.) Yea, basically you are suing the Chinese government.

You are wasting your money. Might as well take a truckload of $100 bills and use them for fancy toilet paper at parties. At least your friends would get some satisfaction.

Bottom line, IMHO, for a small business with limited resources and a limited product exposure (say under a million units) a patent is nice marketing ploy but is way to expensive to enforce. Because at the end of the day, the only income you have off that item is your net profit. If you have to roll $300k+ into your prices no consumer will buy it, they will buy the copy that’s now 1/10th the cost.

Nice product Mike, shame that the US govt is so in bed with big business and China that this kind of thing happens. But frankly, there’s not a darn thing you can do but biotch and complain and lose sleep.

My advise to you would be to write some threatening letters, but if they tell you to piss off or ignore you don’t lose any sleep or spend any more $.

Is what it is.

[RC-Monster Mike]

Originally Posted by MonsterMaxx

OK, my take on this whole patent infringement and China rip offs.

Keeping the products out of their hands is impossible. I personally witnessed a Chinese man going around a major race taking photos and video of innovative products with a high end camera. Shortly thereafter many of those products were offered thru known Chinese companies like Integy.

Yes, I have a patent and yes it has been infringed, no, there was nothing I could afford to do about it.

IMHO a patent for a small business in the US is really only good for marketing. You can NOT afford to enforce it.

As Mike probably knows, the patent itself costs $5-$20k and often takes 3+ years for approval. So there’s your first expense.

Next is the changes our good buddy Obama has pushed into law. That is ‘first to file gets the patent’. This is hugely disadvantageous to small businesses who have often put everything into R&D and can’t yet afford the legal fees for a patent. First to file means that if anyone catches wind of your project, they can go file for a patent having never even produced one item and exclude YOU from making it. Let them get their hands on it and they’ll use YOUR item for their patent application.
This is fine for big companies like Apple with teams of lawyers and dedicated testing personnel, but is NOT advantageous to small businesses.
It used to be that you had a year from your first public debut, that is no longer the case.

Now, what you can do once you get your patent. (Remember, you’ve probably already have spent $20k and have to include that in your product price, which China is likely already undercutting.)
Stop them at the US border. This is an ITC filing. What you do is hand your lawyer aprox $50k and they do a fast track filing with the ITC. Normally this can be completed in 6-12 months and the cost doesn’t usually exceed $100k. Once you win (if you win) customs will stop importation at the border.
There is NO financial recourse with an ITC filing, you only stop them at the border. Also, it’s YOUR responsibility to monitor the market and catch other importers using different channels and part numbers and descriptions. Of course, every time the copy cats take a different route, you have to catch them, give your lawyer the info and more $$ and wait for enforcement.
Fun right?
Now, next is you want to go after the company who is making these clones for real money. They are overseas, right. Get your big checkbook out, ‘cause the lawyer is going to want a $100k retainer and the total bill will be over $250k. Plan for a long fight with lots and lots of extra expenses.
You are suing a Chinese company? Good luck. First off, China does not respect US patents. So, no US physical presence, no chance of any $. Even if by some miracle you manage to win, you’ll never collect. Sueing in Chinese court, there’s a waste of time. A US company will NEVER win in Chinese Kangraoo court. Also to remember, many Chinese companies are supplemented by the Chinese government (reference Chinese solar panel industry which under cut prices by a huge margin and drove US companies like Solydara out of business.) Yea, basically you are suing the Chinese government.

You are wasting your money. Might as well take a truckload of $100 bills and use them for fancy toilet paper at parties. At least your friends would get some satisfaction.

Bottom line, IMHO, for a small business with limited resources and a limited product exposure (say under a million units) a patent is nice marketing ploy but is way to expensive to enforce. Because at the end of the day, the only income you have off that item is your net profit. If you have to roll $300k+ into your prices no consumer will buy it, they will buy the copy that’s now 1/10th the cost.

Nice product Mike, shame that the US govt is so in bed with big business and China that this kind of thing happens. But frankly, there’s not a darn thing you can do but biotch and complain and lose sleep.

My advise to you would be to write some threatening letters, but if they tell you to piss off or ignore you don’t lose any sleep or spend any more $.

Is what it is.

Kind of sad, but kind of true. March will be three years since I filed for the patent - in the home stretch now(making some minor tweaks to the drawings for the gov't), but I still am technically "pending". It was cloned before I broke even on the part, too. Next time there won't be a next time. I largely feel like I spent a couple years development and testing and $15k+ for someone else to make the money. It totally sucks and I have lost some sleep, but I won't soon spend that kind of time and energy again unless I have some $$backing$$. I could go broke trying to be innovative!

[MonsterMaxx]

Oh, and write your congressmen and representatives.

Won't do a thing since you don't have a billion dollars to buy politicians with, but at least no one can accuse you of doing nothing (like not voting and biotching about who's elected.)

It's a sad state of affairs. Simple fact today is that if you don't have a billion to invest over 10+ years on buying politicians and have 20 or so buddies who are doing the same thing, you have no voice in the govt.
We are simply cannon fodder.

Write them, but expect the response from some flunky to be: "so sorry, nothing we can do, you need to hire an attorney."

Oh, and I'm not the least bit bitter or cynical ;)