Project: Savage Flux 5T - Page 14 - RC-Monster Forums

mac3194 · 10.11.2010, 04:54 PM

ok ill try looking for some

thzero · 10.11.2010, 05:31 PM

I had my 5T out the other day and tooling around on 5S on the 2200kv motor, I felt it was still exhibiting too much weight transfer on the white springs. I've switched to running the yellow springs to see if that resolved some of the weight transfer and body roll issues (note I'm also running the black swaybars). I have a feeling that the 50 and 55 weight shock oil that I've been running is a bit too much, may drop down to 40 or 45 weight.

thzero · 06:18 PM

Well after having broken a number of the Savage XL axles at the start of the threads (See below) I got some "custom axles" made to use the standard Baja 5B 24mm hubs. The 5B hubs are 12mm, instead of the 8mm for the Savage X/XL axles, and they use a 4mm pin.

So essentially I got a new pin hole bored in the axle, and a spacer made (8mm ID and 12mm OD).

Here are the seperate parts..

Partially put together

Complete assembly and comparison shot.

This has lost me about 6mm on the XL width (3mm on each side). Not too bad of tradeoff for what seem like a bit sturdier solution.

lincpimp · 02.08.2011, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thzero

Well after having broken a number of the Savage XL axles at the start of the threads (See below) I got some "custom axles" made to use the standard Baja 5B 24mm hubs. The 5B hubs are 12mm, instead of the 8mm for the Savage X/XL axles, and they use a 4mm pin.

So essentially I got a new pin hole bored in the axle, and a spacer made (8mm ID and 12mm OD).

Here are the seperate parts..

Partially put together

Complete assembly and comparison shot.

This has lost me about 6mm on the XL width (3mm on each side). Not too bad of tradeoff for what seem like a bit sturdier solution.

Given your experience with std savvy hex adapter failures, and your mod to allow baja adapter I wonder what you think about having 8mm axles in a savage?

Looks like the small stock hpi pin casue the failures on the hex adapters. Just not enough material and the slot wanted to cam off the pin the whole time it was under load.

I see the setup you have now as much better, as long as the xl axles will survive.

I plan to use an 8mm truggy style setup, and hope it will last better under power.

Any thoughts on this?

thzero · 02.08.2011, 10:16 AM

I think 8mm is ok, I haven't bent any axles yet. But the Savage axle is just a damn stupid design that introduces a huge weak point at the threads. They needed to have gone standard buggy/truggy style with the axles.

As for the ProLines I think it was two-fold. First, soft material used and poor design by ProLine as their attempts to lighten the hub just made it weak. But yes I agree that the pin diameter is too small and the pin is frankly too short so there is very little area to spread the force on and that was the second part of the issue. The 24mm hex adapters from HPI, although suffering from the poor axle design, are much beefier with a better design. I did run these for a bit, before breaking another axle, and the hubs did hold up.

I do like the Baja 24mm hex adapters as, like most buggy/truggy, its a pin through design with a thick pin so there is a fair amount of area to transfer the force through.

If I could get some 17mm to 24mm adapters I would probably switch to truggy arms myself. My only thought of the truggy arms would be that they are made for racing so will be stiffer, which means they may break more often under extreme bashing than the more flexible Savage arms. I may do this for my nitro/brushless transformer Savage... haven't decided; debating between that and doing a straight axle (using twin-force axles) based MT.

I've been following your LST thread, looks promising.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lincpimp

Given your experience with std savvy hex adapter failures, and your mod to allow baja adapter I wonder what you think about having 8mm axles in a savage?

Looks like the small stock hpi pin casue the failures on the hex adapters. Just not enough material and the slot wanted to cam off the pin the whole time it was under load.

I see the setup you have now as much better, as long as the xl axles will survive.

I plan to use an 8mm truggy style setup, and hope it will last better under power.

Any thoughts on this?

thzero · 12.09.2010, 02:38 PM

Next phase is implementing a center diff. Doing this for a couple of reasons; a) to mount the 1520 motor, b) better turning, c) remove the tranny, d) because I want to! Granted I can grind out the chassis to allow the 1520 motor to fit, but really with the TVPs its a PITA to work on.

Replacing the Savage tranny with a center diff means you lose the gear reduction of the tranny. So now you need to run large spurs (50, 52, 54) with small pinions (8, 9, 10, 11).

I have all the spurs, as I was planning to use a RC8T center diff [because I have an RC8T], but smallest mod 1 pinions I've found is a 9. But really these are getting small and bit worried about them holding up frankly.

So my next option was to explore using different front/rear diffs. Someone once mentioned to me that the Lightning Stadium Pro diffs should fit. So I went and look up part numbers, but also ended up checking out some other HP and Hot Body vehicles. And dang the HP Vorza and HB Lightning Pro diff internals looked much the same, both being spiral cut too, and you could use center dogbones to boot. So I ordered some, and low and behold the 43 tooth ring gear fits on a Savage diff using the Flux/XL diff cups. And it fits into the bulkhead needing only minor shimming. The 10t spiral cut bevel gear fit, but has a bit of play (About an 1/8th of an inch or so) that needs to get taken care of. But nothing insurmountable at all. The 43t ring is much thicker than even the bulletproof diff, so with a good shim I don't see any issues using these in the Savage under 6S. Especially considering they are used in the Vorza and I run spiral cut diffs in my RC8T and haven't had issues.

So now with using the 4.3:1 ratio front/rear diffs I can run one of the smaller center diff spurs (50) and play with 12-15 tooth pinions.

I'll post some pics tonight with everything mocked up.

Jahay · 12.09.2010, 03:33 PM

I am using the BP diffs and running a 47t centre diff spur... and i run 12-14t pinions.

I am considering staying at 13t as it is a good all rounder... but i am able to run 15t and maintain warm decent temps on road....

edit

forgot to mention, i am using a 1520 too and only run 6s

thzero · 12.09.2010, 03:53 PM

Well I am going to be running 6.84" tires. 47/12 is like estimated 57. I was targeting around the 40-45mph zone. And thats about 50 with a 10 or 11 pinion on 6S with 1520; estimating for speed loss due to weight, restistance, etc, etc. Even running a 54 still means an 11 or 12t pinion.

Switching to 4.3:1 diffs means I can run a 50 with 13-15 pinions. 50/13 gives me a rollout of 1.3 which is just about the rollout of the stock Flux at 1.28 I think it is. Just using that as a ballpark base setup.

Oh and I almost never drive onroad... thats boring to me; if I want onroad action I'll strap myself in and go run laps on iRacing; the best PC level consumer oriented racing simulator on the planet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahay

I am using the BP diffs and running a 47t centre diff spur... and i run 12-14t pinions.

I am considering staying at 13t as it is a good all rounder... but i am able to run 15t and maintain warm decent temps on road....
forgot to mention, i am using a 1520 too and only run 6s

Jahay · 12.09.2010, 04:04 PM

haha fair enough bud...

you know what you need to do considering your running some tall chunky tyres/rims...

When i was geared for 53mph on my savage according to the speed calcs.... i was getting an actual top speed of 44mph according to multiple radar guns... That was with badland tyres... maybe that will help you decide your gearing a little.... Oh and my temps were in the 110-120 degreeF range... so running very cool still.... i am have yet to push this motor temps apart from one time when i accidently geared my motor to 75mph but that was a little mistake...

thzero · 12.09.2010, 04:55 PM

Well yeah thats why I'm estimating about 5mph speed loss over the 'estimated top speed'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahay

haha fair enough bud...

you know what you need to do considering your running some tall chunky tyres/rims...

When i was geared for 53mph on my savage according to the speed calcs.... i was getting an actual top speed of 44mph according to multiple radar guns... That was with badland tyres... maybe that will help you decide your gearing a little.... Oh and my temps were in the 110-120 degreeF range... so running very cool still.... i am have yet to push this motor temps apart from one time when i accidently geared my motor to 75mph but that was a little mistake...

thzero · 12.09.2010, 09:29 PM

So here's the battle plan for the center diff TVPs. A bit of a different approach. Notice the lack of 'rollbars' built into the TVP. I'm planning on running the Baja rollbars instead so thats some of the reason for the design.

Here are the TVPs. Right now I have it using two 3S batteries inside the rails forward of the center diff. I was debating between the twin batteries, or doing a single battery like I have now that sits just over the top of the drive shaft. But I thought that it might be better to move the weight lower; also using 3S, vs. a 6S, gives me more options to use batteries in other vehicles too.

And here is the new bulkhead/diff plate/motor plate. This will replace the existing Savage rear bulkhead plate. It will hold the center diff using a standard truggy/buggy diff mount. The rear portion of the plate is extended to hold an anchor system for the Baja 5B rollbars.

thzero · 12.09.2010, 09:50 PM

And here is the Vorza 43t ring gear on a Savage diff...

And how it sits in the bulkhead...

Jahay · 12.10.2010, 04:52 AM

I cannot wait to see this come to life...

The diffs look good but i am a little worried... I just dont thing that these vorza diffs will work too well if you house them in the plastic savage bulks. The flex of the bulks under 6s load with the torquey 1520 motor will cause you diff problems i think... Hence why the BP diffs were introduced.
BUT
These definitely would work very well if you use alloy bulks which allow no flex of the ring and pinion...

For example....

The old stock HD Ring and Pinion gears (before the BP gears came around) were being sold with the flux... but in the plastic bulks constantly failed... Teeth chipped, pinions broke, bla bla bla... BUT i put them in some ALLOY GH Bulks... and even with the extra torque... and my nose heavy DB-17 chassis that keeps the front down and puts the power down... the diffs always survived as they dont allow any flex and my diff probs are a thing of the past...

Actually i am not definitely considering trying this vorza diff mod in some alloy GH Bulks! I like the idea of running larger pinions!
So is this just a vorza ring gear on a savage alloy bulk and the stock SHD cup outputs?

Thanks bud!

thzero · 12.10.2010, 10:31 AM

There isnt a comparison with these or the "bulletproof" diff rings and the original Savage rings.

As an FYI, the Vorza has plastic bulks, not to mention almost every truggy has plastic bulks (not to mention most of the truggies and buggies have plastic diff cases); although granted most of the truggies/buggies were designed for nitro power. TBut then again I havent had issues with 5 or 6S on my RC8Te. So not really sure that alloy bulks are necessary but I guess well find out eventually.

What is pictured is a Vorza/D8/Ve8/LightningStadiumSport ring gear (HBC9010), attached to a standard Savage X diff with the XL/Flux SHD drive cups. It does require a 8x16 bearing on the ring gear instead of the 11x16 that the bulletproof ring gear uses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahay

I cannot wait to see this come to life...

The diffs look good but i am a little worried... I just dont thing that these vorza diffs will work too well if you house them in the plastic savage bulks. The flex of the bulks under 6s load with the torquey 1520 motor will cause you diff problems i think... Hence why the BP diffs were introduced.

Actually i am not definitely considering trying this vorza diff mod in some alloy GH Bulks! I like the idea of running larger pinions!
So is this just a vorza ring gear on a savage alloy bulk and the stock SHD cup outputs?

Jahay · 12.10.2010, 10:36 AM

That is true regarding the plastic bulks... But none of the mentioned RCs are anywhere near as heavy as a savage nor do they use wheels and tyres as heavy as you intend to use.

I dont know why i had so many probs with my plastic bulks and 1520 motor... But since running GH Alloy bulks... all my probs are a thing of the past...

Anyway.. lets see how this badass truck turns out