Mamba Pro - for all you tech-heads

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but a Novak 5.5 ( around 7400 I think), I am running it on a Reedy 4800mah 2s lipo, and the gearing is 18/84. The gearing does not seem to be the problem because i have tried raising and lowering the pinion size and it does not help. I have run this car off of two mamba max's and they both ran hot. This motor ran fine on the GTB and My XBR and 8.5 never ran hot.

The only thing I can think of is something is binding, but i have checked and rechecked the bearings and my diff shimming and gear mesh's and they are all fine.

I REALLY do think it is the mamba's, because they are both fine, just run hot on that particular motor.

[MetalMan]

Novak specs their 5.5 at 7,400 RPM/volt:
http://www.teamnovak.com/products/br...spec_chart.htm

[Metallover]

novak 5.5 has to be less then that if I'm not mistaken.. My 36mm quark 4t motor is supposed to be 6000kv.

Edit- whoops, that was a very n00b thing of me to say. Guess it all depends on more factors then turns...

The novak 5.5t ballistic motor is 7400kv, as stated in the previous post.

That sounds right on the KV. a 3.5 is right around 10,000 KV

I ran a 5.5 in my wheeler for months. And it never got hot, esc or motor (orion motor, and a LRP sphere, then a KO esc after) im not sure how your ESC is getting so hot

Yeah, I dont either. I HOPE there not something wrong with my speedo.

[littlegiant]

Originally Posted by BlackedOutREVO

That sounds right on the KV. a 3.5 is right around 10,000 KV

I ran a 5.5 in my wheeler for months. And it never got hot, esc or motor (orion motor, and a LRP sphere, then a KO esc after) im not sure how your ESC is getting so hot

Hmm.. where do you stay? What's the ambient temp like?

[Sammus]

The castle controllers are advertised as industrial solutions that wouldn't necessarily be running from batteries, so I imagine their continuous ratings are accurate

see here http://www.castlespecialprojects.com...ntrollers.html for their industrial ratings for different kinds of cooling.

Note the 'mamba max pro' has max input of 12V and there is no regular mamba max. I think they have been calling that industrial version the pro - its been labelled as that for quite a while now.

[J57ltr]

I still have a boat load of older amps still to this day, but only have a Kicker L5 and a Soundstream Reference 500SX, and an older Sony cd player with some Boston 1" added to the rest of the stock system.

Heck I don't even think the industrial stuff is ready yet. I just checked into a system for a small conveyor we build and there aren't really any options, the only option I was given was PWM signal in just like a hobby system (Who uses that?); a switch that would activate the motor or the motor would run on applied power. Controlling speed was a problem and there isn't a way to communicate to it. The speed control had a great price and I was told for an engineering fee I could get it configured “anyway I like” Which I was perfectly fine for a custom, but the motor price was ludicrous, and apparently nobody wants to make you a custom motor unless you are buying 10K units. I could spend less on a VFD and a standard 3 phase motor for cheaper, but it wouldn't be as small. So I’ll stick with what we have until I find a better answer.

I know the industrial line has a larger heatsinks but unless they have a way to mount a larger heatsink I doubt they ones can handle it. I got a million questions about what kind of transient voltages I see and all these battery related questions. It’s an industrial application how many run on batteries everybody uses power supplies.

Ever see a 16 HP VFD? They are much larger and are not passively cooled, and they start out with 230V-480V so the current is much lower.

I guess I am just used to stuff running continuously, like 24/7, maybe a few days a year off, but all the time is what I am saying.

I know my MM will handle a lot I have run the 7700 combo bashing on grass on NiMH and never had a problem. I run A123 now and see spikes as high as 178 amps on my Elogger, and have run more than 10 minutes on 3S2P on a Fagieo 4436KV with spikes in the 140A range I have no doubt in a car it’s not a big deal but a loaded industrial application.

So what is continuous? Is there any standardization in RC?

Jeff

[SpEEdyBL]

Try using the highest timing possible when running novak type motors on the MM esc. There is about a 30 degree timing advance in the sensors so that is where you should shoot for.

I tested the rpm of my novak hv 7.5 on the Mamba Monster and the HV-Maxx esc. Unloaded kv on the MMM was about 2550 at zero degrees timing and 2600 with 10 degrees. On the hv-maxx, unloaded kv was around 2900.

[RC-Monster Mike]

The "continuous" discharge rating on our ESC specs usually does not mean "to eternity". What it meant years ago was "ability to continuously discharge a 2000mah battery at the stated amp rate", for example.
In other words, the "continuous" rating is not "a complete statement" in reality. When the cutting edge battery pack could only deliver 2000mah, for example, the "continuous" rating only needed to be capable of delivering the rated current for the duration of this capacity(100 amp rated cont. discharge of a 2000mah nicad pack would only need to sustain this discharge rate for 1.2 minutes to meet its rated discharge capability).
I am pretty sure that the 2000mah is not the capacity status quo of today, but there is a likely specific capacity attached to the continuous discharge statement(along with a given temperature, etc.). :)

[J57ltr]

Originally Posted by RC-Monster Mike

The "continuous" discharge rating on our ESC specs usually does not mean "to eternity". What it meant years ago was "ability to continuously discharge a 2000mah battery at the stated amp rate", for example.
In other words, the "continuous" rating is not "a complete statement" in reality. When the cutting edge battery pack could only deliver 2000mah, for example, the "continuous" rating only needed to be capable of delivering the rated current for the duration of this capacity(100 amp rated cont. discharge of a 2000mah nicad pack would only need to sustain this discharge rate for 1.2 minutes to meet its rated discharge capability).
I am pretty sure that the 2000mah is not the capacity status quo of today, but there is a likely specific capacity attached to the continuous discharge statement(along with a given temperature, etc.). :)

Well that explains things a little better, I have always looked at these specs out of the corner of my eye. Thanks for some clairification on that. So who would like to chime in on the new spec?

Jeff

[Pdelcast]

Originally Posted by J57ltr

Well that explains things a little better, I have always looked at these specs out of the corner of my eye. Thanks for some clairification on that. So who would like to chime in on the new spec?

Jeff

At Castle, we don't rate our controllers based on a battery size and lifetime. Rather, we rate our controllers based on temperature rise and stabilization. So if you look at something like, say, the Phoenix-ICE-100 (rated at 100A continuous) it can handle 100A for as long as you want to put 100A through it, and will temperature stabilize at about 80C (176F) with a 5mph airflow over the controller.

We decided not to put a current rating on our RC car controllers because we didn't agree with the way the industry rated controllers. There are controllers on the market that are rated at amperage levels that would actually MELT 12ga copper wire. (which is a ridiculous claim... most brushed controllers on the market that claim hundreds of amps of capability can actually only handle about 30-40A by Castle's rating method)

And so we decided not to get into an amperage "arms race" with companies that deliberately mislead the public.

[Kcaz25]

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

At Castle, we don't rate our controllers based on a battery size and lifetime. Rather, we rate our controllers based on temperature rise and stabilization. So if you look at something like, say, the Phoenix-ICE-100 (rated at 100A continuous) it can handle 100A for as long as you want to put 100A through it, and will temperature stabilize at about 80C (176F) with a 5mph airflow over the controller.

We decided not to put a current rating on our RC car controllers because we didn't agree with the way the industry rated controllers. There are controllers on the market that are rated at amperage levels that would actually MELT 12ga copper wire. (which is a ridiculous claim... most brushed controllers on the market that claim hundreds of amps of capability can actually only handle about 30-40A by Castle's rating method)

And so we decided not to get into an amperage "arms race" with companies that deliberately mislead the public.

Light bulb! Great post Mr. Patrick!

[littlegiant]

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

At Castle, we don't rate our controllers based on a battery size and lifetime. Rather, we rate our controllers based on temperature rise and stabilization. So if you look at something like, say, the Phoenix-ICE-100 (rated at 100A continuous) it can handle 100A for as long as you want to put 100A through it, and will temperature stabilize at about 80C (176F) with a 5mph airflow over the controller.

We decided not to put a current rating on our RC car controllers because we didn't agree with the way the industry rated controllers. There are controllers on the market that are rated at amperage levels that would actually MELT 12ga copper wire. (which is a ridiculous claim... most brushed controllers on the market that claim hundreds of amps of capability can actually only handle about 30-40A by Castle's rating method)

And so we decided not to get into an amperage "arms race" with companies that deliberately mislead the public.

How did Castle rate the MM?

[J57ltr]

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

At Castle, we don't rate our controllers based on a battery size and lifetime. Rather, we rate our controllers based on temperature rise and stabilization. So if you look at something like, say, the Phoenix-ICE-100 (rated at 100A continuous) it can handle 100A for as long as you want to put 100A through it, and will temperature stabilize at about 80C (176F) with a 5mph airflow over the controller.

We decided not to put a current rating on our RC car controllers because we didn't agree with the way the industry rated controllers. There are controllers on the market that are rated at amperage levels that would actually MELT 12ga copper wire. (which is a ridiculous claim... most brushed controllers on the market that claim hundreds of amps of capability can actually only handle about 30-40A by Castle's rating method)

And so we decided not to get into an amperage "arms race" with companies that deliberately mislead the public.

OK, so that makes more sense to me, but according to your website there have always been current ratings for the RC car controllers. They have changed since I first started looking at the MMM.

The Sidewinder used to be rated at 100 amps, now it's rated "More than you can handle!"

http://www.castlecreations.com/products/sidewinder.html

The Mamba Max has been rated at 100 amps continuous and still is according to the website.

http://www.castlecreations.com/products/mamba_max.html

The Mamba Monster was rated at "More than you can handle", but now has a rating of 120 amps continuous*

*Full throttle continuous operation with cooling airflow

http://www.castlecreations.com/produ...a_monster.html

Before I bought a MM I ran a brushed motor and modified my Duratrax Streak (12V capable and 12 turn limit). I asked all the guys around here what kind of current draw I would have on different turn motors and no one knew; most would glaze over when I started ask any technical question regarding anything to do with power needed for a system. Well I started modifying the Streak to handle more power by adding a couple more fets and then I realized that the traces on the board were too small to handle more than about 10 amps, so I cut some copper sheet and added it to the power traces. I was running an 8 turn motor just bashing around in my Rustler. So I have always (at least the last 5 or so years I have been back into this hobby) looked at ratings like they were absolute maximums of the componets, like adding up the pulsed drain currents of all the fets in the system. It takes more than componets to make an ESC the traces have to handle the current,

It’s really hard to get good information in the RC industry. The only way I was able to get any information at all was to buy the Eagletree data logger even if it has a very slow sample rate to me it was better than nothing.

So, if I may ask how do you test your ESC’s? Is it a purely a resistive load or an inductive load, or combo, (I did see the resistor array in one of your posts)? Do you use a large motor with a brake to load it to certain amperage? Is it done at a set “RPM”, or varying (but with the same current load) since the impedance of real motor changes with speed?

Just very curious about this.

Thanks

Jeff