Thank you mods

[hootie7159]

No offense given and none taken Sower its great to see controversial topics/issues being discussed in a mature manner by the members of this forum.....and +1 if you need to mod my thread too Brian ....and Brian I believe if they got married before Prop 8 passed thy will be "grandfathered" in....I don't think their marriage license will be taken away but IDK don't quote me on that.....again...this why this forum is great and it all starts with level-headed/open-minded MODS who conduct themselves as such :yes....

[Sower]

Originally Posted by BrianG

About Prop 8: I am quite surprised it passed really. If I am not mistaken, wasn't gay marriage allowed until now? So, does that mean gays which are currently "joined" have to divorce? Or are they "grandfathered" in?

Actually the Supreme Court legislated from the bench (admittedly my opinion) in that instance so on the surface the unions were legal until the people could vote on it.

I do find it interesting how anyone that speaks about this issue has to say how they either have friends that are homosexual or something like that. Our society seems to be so politically correct anymore that we can't just talk about the issue. Seems like there's too much emotion out there and not enough pragmatism and logic. Anyone else notice that?

I also get a kick out of homosexual marriage supporters just bashing people that are against it. They scream in your face about how intollerant you are or that you're a biggot for not accepting others beliefs. Yet that's exactly what they're doing

[_paralyzed_]

Originally Posted by BrianG

And I have strong suspicions my father has closet issues.

one wouldn't know such a thing unless they were in the same closet......just messin' with ya'

[hoovhartid]

Originally Posted by Sower

Anyway, I really don't have a problem with what you're saying. I have no problem with the "legal" side of this whole thing until they call it marriage. If two homosexuals want the rights to see eachother in the hospital in those "family" situations they complain about - great. If they want to commit themselves to eachother for life - great. But the family is the basic building block of our society and by natural law can only occur from a man and a woman.

The basic idea for me is that marriage is between a man and a woman - if homosexuals want something similar that's fine, but don't call it marriage and treat it as an equal because by natural law it's not.

For me, marriage is just a word. Using it to describe something other than a union between a man and a woman has never threatened my societial building blocks.

"the marriage of music and dance";

"a marriage of ideas";

"married to their work";

"he's married to the mob";

"a marriage between two companies"

...Its a word used in many places to describe a union having nothing to do with a man and a woman.

I could care less about what its called.

I do, however, care about equality, and some laws are written to only include rights and privelages for those who are married. Tax breaks, custody rights, visitation rights, all just a few examples where laws have proclusions for those who are married. Using the actual term "marriage" or "married".

So.... I dont care how it happends, but to make things equal....either gays should have the right to marry, or all the laws that include marriage will need to be rewritten.

Which is faster? costs less money? easier?
How much money has gone into limiting the use of a word?

I'd rather be running my revo.

Am I gay?

Only for the lincPimp and thats only on wednesdays!

No....I'm not gay. But I think we all know someone who is. I happen to know alot of gay people. Some of them care to be married, some could care less. Just like the heterosexual people I know...some care, others dont. I just think everyone should have the same rights. Even the right to call their union whatever they want....weather they want to use the word marriage or not should be upto the couple...not a bunch of others who live in fear for no reason.

[Sower]

Originally Posted by hoovhartid

For me, marriage is just a word. Using it to describe something other than a union between a man and a woman has never threatened my societial building blocks.

"the marriage of music and dance";

"a marriage of ideas";

"married to their work";

"he's married to the mob";

"a marriage between two companies"

...Its a word used in many places to describe a union having nothing to do with a man and a woman.

I could care less about what its called.

I do, however, care about equality, and some laws are written to only include rights and privelages for those who are married. Tax breaks, custody rights, visitation rights, all just a few examples where laws have proclusions for those who are married. Using the actual term "marriage" or "married".

So.... I dont care how it happends, but to make things equal....either gays should have the right to marry, or all the laws that include marriage will need to be rewritten.

Which is faster? costs less money? easier?
How much money has gone into limiting the use of a word?

I'd rather be running my revo.

Am I gay?

Only for the lincPimp and thats only on wednesdays!

No....I'm not gay. But I think we all know someone who is. I happen to know alot of gay people. Some of them care to be married, some could care less. Just like the heterosexual people I know...some care, others dont. I just think everyone should have the same rights. Even the right to call their union whatever they want....weather they want to use the word marriage or not should be upto the couple...not a bunch of others who live in fear for no reason.

That's fine you feel marriage is just a word - but with all due respect, the fact is that words have meanings. Especially marriage.

And I'm all for equality too - when it exists and not when it doesn't. That's what this comes down to. Homosexual unions are not equal to heterosexual unions. The tax breaks and all that stuff go with marriage because of what that union provides to society. Doesn't that make sense? How can you say the two things are equal when they're not?

And I really don't understand the comments about " . . . others who live in fear . . . " I have no idea how you can judge the intentions of others as "fear" when they simply don't agree with you.

[_paralyzed_]

just some food for thought on the marriage topic: I grew up in small town minnesota, I have inherited racist and homophobic traits due to my upbringing; laughing at off color jokes and using terminology that isn't politically correct. However, anybody should be able to do whatever they want as long as no one is physically hurt, and I see everyone as equal. That being said, here is my thought: people talk of the sanctity of marriage, the fact that family and procreation is the building block of society. Thats all fine and dandy, in a perfect world, which we are not in. We are in a world where those of us "allowed" to marry (straight people) abuse the family principle by having bastard children, ruin the sanctity of marriage with extra marital affairs and scoff at the idea of commitment as they are on their 5th marriage and know if it doesn't work this time they can always get divorced. So why is it okay for straight people to get married a dozen times and screw it up and gays can't even get married once? They should make divorce illegal, not gay marriage.

[hoovhartid]

Sower,
Not tryin to start a fight here. If you were offended I apologise. I know words have meanings. Many times the same word has more than one. (which was my point)

I'm not here to judge you. Its my opinion that when phraises like "basic building block of our society", and "by natural law can only occur from a man and a woman." It just reminds my of my Catholic upbringing. I learned to stay "inline" through fear that if I didn't "God would punish me" or "I would go to hell". Religion has kept people making decisions based on fear. Much like our current government. Again, these are my opinions, not judgements against you or anyone else.

"The tax breaks and all that stuff go with marriage because of what that union provides to society. Doesn't that make sense? How can you say the two things are equal when they're not?" I dont even know where to start here. Who are you to decide that one marriage provides more to society than another? Thats closed-minded, presumptuous, and...the list goes on.

"Homosexual unions are not equal to heterosexual unions" based on what? other than your opinon.

Why/How is one better than the other?

[BrianG]

OK, mental note to self: Don't take bustitup seriously.

wow this has gotten way off points... Cheers to the mods that make this a great forum!

As a black, gay, jew, I am 5 steps passed offended by this thread. This was to thank the mods, not bash how some amendment was voted on, or what the meaning of words are. This forum is not the venue for political discussion, drop it guys.... My opinion of the whole thing? so much for the separation of church and state... one of the founding principals of this nation... now drop it and get back to thanking the mods (and MIKE!!!) for a great site.

[Modding_out]

Originally Posted by DickyT

As a black, gay, jew,

What? I thought you were a fat white guy?



Just razzin ya man.

Originally Posted by Modding_out

What? I thought you were a fat white guy?

I am a short, fat, married to a woman, white guy. I was just trying to steer this horrible derailed thread back on point. seems my attempts failed.

Originally Posted by Modding_out

What? I thought you were a fat white guy?

No that was ME

[_paralyzed_]

and then silence............. thanks DickyT for getting us back on track

[hoovhartid]

Originally Posted by DickyT

As a black, gay, jew, I am 5 steps passed offended by this thread. This was to thank the mods, not bash how some amendment was voted on, or what the meaning of words are. This forum is not the venue for political discussion, drop it guys.... My opinion of the whole thing? so much for the separation of church and state... one of the founding principals of this nation... now drop it and get back to thanking the mods (and MIKE!!!) for a great site.

You are right. This thread took a very bad turn. I too apperciate the mods and mike for giving us such a great resource for information.

No more political talk out of me. I was offended. I thought I could help someone to see the other side of an arguement, but I was wrong. I failed, and worse, I took away from the origional idea of this thread so I apologise.

The mods here are awesome. This forum is valuable to me. Thank you for all who work to allow those like me to learn here. I will do better to ignore the comments that do not apply to my hobby here.