Hobbyking stocking Baja 5b Clones!

[tashpop]

i'm game once a product has been out a while, a few years... then it seems like the copies come out. idk if there is a time limit like drugs that a patent runs out or what so the laws don't come into effect. but anyways, i would love to get one of these guys and yes i will replace parts by sending my money to hpi, or if somebody else made a better part they would get the money. if the price was close i would get the original, but we are looking at almost %50 difference, especially for those who use upgraded radio gear. i'm sure companies like hpi have bookies punching numbers who know clones will come out and their loss there is rolled into the cost of the original some how.

My baja is a clone but 99% has been switched to upgraded parts.so if you want something cheap to drive and are going to put hop-up after hop-up it's worth it.
They do use something in the 4 series of aluminum,I found that out when I tried to de-anodize the smaller parts and they lost half there mass in 30 seconds! But I'm still running a completely stock drivetrain with NO wear,not even on the drive cups with a DS 26.5 ported marine motor, and I've seen real bajas drivetrains fail. So it seems like they skimp on good aluminum,but the steel I definately up to par. Oh,and all the plastic is a non fiber reinforced stiff type that I couldn't quite pinpoint.--josh

[TexasSP]

I have said this before but if HPI truly owned a patent to this vehicle, it would not be sold in the US. My personal belief is that HPI bought rights to someone else's design and it was not exclusively theirs. Whoever the designer was could then allow others (or themselves) to make it as well. It's hard to say without knowing more so this is just an educated guess based on things I have seen before.

[suicideneil]

Interesting point that has indeed been raised before ( probably by you ).

Its great timing though, just add the Castle conversion kit and you have an Ebaja for only a smidgin over $1k- thats dirt cheap for such an awesome r/c.

I dont want any more r/cs ( maybe a plane and/or boat to mix things up a little bit ), but this is hecka tempting...

[Big House]

Originally Posted by suicideneil

Interesting point that has indeed been raised before ( probably by you ).

Its great timing though, just add the Castle conversion kit and you have an Ebaja for only a smidgin over $1k- thats dirt cheap for such an awesome r/c.

I dont want any more r/cs ( maybe a plane and/or boat to mix things up a little bit ), but this is hecka tempting...

+1. I Have to get my truggy running before I can look into something else like this.

[Arct1k]

Its only illegal if a patent exists? Does HPI say they have a patent on the design?

[simplechamp]

Well I guess at the very least it's immoral and pretty shady business practice. At the most it is illegal or criminal.

I'm obviously not a lawyer, but I would guess the laws are pretty complex. Might not be as cut and dried as having a patent or not.

[TexasSP]

Given the other possibilities it may not be immoral either. Everyone is assuming that HPI is the actual designer/creator of the vehicle in question which may not be the case. I have no proof one way or the other but without evidence it's premature at best to come to a forgone conclusion.

[simplechamp]

Found this on a different forum, HPI Europe's response to the Baja clones:

Dear Baja Fans and Baja community,

HPI Racing is aware of the appearance of Baja ‘clones’ on the market and the discussions about them on internet forums and other places.

Most Forum members here have already correctly said that these are blatant copies and have nothing to do with HPI’s Baja.

However, HPI would like to make a few statements about the clones and the discussions about them:


General comments:

1. HPI welcomes all discussions about the company and its products on internet forums or anywhere else.
2. HPI is a brand well known for innovative, market-leading designs which bring new excitement to the RC world. The best examples of this include the Nitro RS4, Micro RS4, Savage and now the Baja 5B, which has clearly inspired the large-scale scene around the world. Research and development and high quality production of these products costs money. Like in all industries, product imitation discourages innovation and such products only ride on the back of successful concepts without contributing any new ideas to the industry.
3. These Baja clones are simply cheap, unauthorized copies. They are not made at the HPI factory, or any factory associated with HPI and they have got absolutely nothing to do with HPI’s production.
4. Do not be fooled by pictures. In our experience, very often these so called clones have not yet been made. A replication factory makes a few of their own components and then assembles a car using 80-90% original HPI parts that they have bought in a regular shop. With this method they appear to have a finished product with which they gauge the market. The final imitation products might not resemble the “prototype” at all and are often of even lower quality.


HPI will consider legal action in the following cases:

1. Companies use HPI’s original pictures and artwork without any authorization to market their products and to mislead customers about the origin and nature of the copy product. HPI will of course consider legal action against these copyright infringements , either against the originator, or the website carrying the copyright protected material.
2. HPI will not accept public statements on forums or websites that are simply untrue and made without any proof or are not clearly identified as an opinion. 3. HPI will consider legal action against the originators of any such statements, or the websites carrying them.
HPI will consider legal action against the factories and anybody selling or importing these blatant direct copy products into any market.
4. In particular, HPI EU will take legal action against the first importer of these cars into the EU, who would under EU law be fully responsible for ensuring the compliance of the product with the relevant EU laws.


Best regards
HPI Europe - Marketing
www.hpi-europe.com

[fastbaja5b]

If it were Illegal, wouldn't HPI have done something years ago when King Motor and Rovan clones started? Immoral? Perhaps, but IMO, often the main barrier to entering 5th scale is the initial start up cost, esp with a wife, a lot easier to justify $400 than $1400.

Clones are already cheap,I guess hobbyking gets em cheaper because they order in larger bulk than the eBay scammers.--Josh

[lincpimp]

They need to sell a roller for 200 bucks...

Have a look at harbor freight and see that you can get a full gas engine for around 100 bucks, something like the little baja 2 stroke would be very cheap. Lots of parts in a baja so the inital cost of tooling all of it up would be high, however they would sell alot at those prices...

I am tempted to buy one, but would rather a 4wd for something this size. 4 wheel motor braking would be nice, and lower weight would be good too. Should be able to get something like this down to 15lbs or less. Then you can use a smaller lighter power system.

The baja design is just too heavy. Maybe it is sturdy but it has to be to carry all of the weight, which is mainly the gas engine. BL spreads out the weight, making the need for very sturdy areas not as necessary.

Personally I would like to make a up tube/space frame and use something like the lst or savvage suspension. Keep the weight low...

[TexasSP]

I agree. If I was to go 5th scale electric I think I would use the 5th scale savage flux conversion from TCS.

[mjosparky]

A patent is given on something that is completely new or is shown to be a vast improvement on an existing item or idea. I doubt that there is anything new or innovative on the Baja 5 that would qualify for a patent.
The pictures and art work he mentioned are copyrighted and they would have a valid claim if the clone companies were to use them.
As for going after companies that import the clones, if they do not represent them as beings genuine HPI products they havn't broken any laws.
I personally resent a Major company in the industry coming on an open forum and making veiled threats. Knowing full well there is nothing they can do they would have been better off taking the high ground and remaining salient.
Disclaimer: While this holds true in the US other countries around the world may be different.

Sparky

[_paralyzed_]

I'd rather buy a used and beaten hpi 5b over any clone 5b.

The clones have more brittle plastic, weaker cheaper aluminum, thinner less durable rubber, cheaper bearings (some spots completely omit a bearing), ghetto electronics and NO customer support.

The weight may be a turn off to some, but with the size and weight of my fully modded 30.5 5b I have put more power to the ground than any r/c I've owned.

The trenches it digs on burnouts and the grass chunks it throws whipping shitties is just unmatchable.

The power and realism are truly on another level.

I can't wait to build an electric 5b! (in the works, coming soon)