a123system batt and charger

[JakeE]

Originally Posted by MetalMan

I'm using a Duratrax ICE, and I stop the charge manually. If it were me doing that setup (two 2s2p), I'd be able to do it for $245 ($80 for 8 cells from a Dewalt 36v pack, $125 for Duratrax ICE, and $40 for a Dapter [to stop the charge for you]). But this setup requires custom building, which might be something you would prefer to not do.

But to answer your question, two packs should work with the HV-Maxx 4.5, just don't use the adjustable voltage modules (apparently they aren't made to handle the high current of brushless motors).

I'm in the research phase of doing my own 1/8th scale buggy conversion. What settings are you using to charge the A123 cells on your ICE and are you charging the pack in a 5S2P or 10S1P configuration? I'm trying to decide between using my ICE or buying a new higher capacity A123 capable charger when it becomes in available in a couple months.

[MetalMan]

10 cells NiMh mode, set to a 15 mv/cell peak detection (so it won't cut out). The capacity value is rather arbitrary, but I set it to 9900mah.
The ICE can't put out the voltage to do 10s1p, so I charge it as 5s2p (the same way it's configured when I run it in my Revo).
Another possibility is the Astroflight 109 charger. Soon there's supposed to be an update for it that will allow you to charge A123 cells. Right now there's a hack shown on another forum that will let you charge the cells on the AF109. Recently I also got a 109, so I will try the hack on it.

Where did you hear about a different A123 charger?

[JakeE]

Originally Posted by MetalMan

10 cells NiMh mode, set to a 15 mv/cell peak detection (so it won't cut out). The capacity value is rather arbitrary, but I set it to 9900mah.
The ICE can't put out the voltage to do 10s1p, so I charge it as 5s2p (the same way it's configured when I run it in my Revo).
Another possibility is the Astroflight 109 charger. Soon there's supposed to be an update for it that will allow you to charge A123 cells. Right now there's a hack shown on another forum that will let you charge the cells on the AF109. Recently I also got a 109, so I will try the hack on it.

Where did you hear about a different A123 charger?

There's an update that will add native A123 capability to the Hyperion 1210i (a 12S capable, 10A max, 180 total watt charger) currently in the works as mentioned in this thread on rcgroups.com. My current plan is to run two 5S1P packs in parallel in my buggy conversion. I can then connect them in series as 10S1P pack and charge at 10A (roughly 4C) which should let me charge the whole pack in 15 minutes. My ICE is suffering from left button failure so I don't need much of an excuse to start looking for a new charger :dft012:

[MetalMan]

Oh, I thought you meant A123 themselves are going to come out with a better charger.

I almost got the Hyperion 1210i (and would have gotten the update when it came out), but I got an Astroflight 109 for almost half the cost of the 1210i.

There are other chargers out there that can also charge A123 cells. The TME Xtrema is one of them. It's more expensive than the 1210i, though.

[JakeE]

Originally Posted by MetalMan

Oh, I thought you meant A123 themselves are going to come out with a better charger.

I almost got the Hyperion 1210i (and would have gotten the update when it came out), but I got an Astroflight 109 for almost half the cost of the 1210i.

There are other chargers out there that can also charge A123 cells. The TME Xtrema is one of them. It's more expensive than the 1210i, though.

I've read about the Xtrema and it looks like a very nice charger but it doesn't apppear to charge NiMH/NiCD cells and I already have a wattmeter and a Hyperion balancer which is why I'm leaning towards the 1210i. I seem to recall reading about sporadic problems with the Astroflight 109 incorrectly detecting cell counts for Lipo batteries, was that problem resolved?

[MetalMan]

The AF109 has a first stage that displays the # of cells it detects. IMO, it's up to the user to make sure the AF109 displays the correct # of cells. Usually it's chooses properly, but sometimes it will detect a pack as a cell lower than what it really is, which just means that the pack is discharged more than the 109 likes.

Soon I'll be ordering the parts to "hack" my 109. I'll be able to do 1-9s on one side of a switch, 10s A123 on the other, and then normal Lipo in the middle position of the switch.

[starscream]

MM
I thought the AF109 was not a true CC/CV charger so you could only charge to 80-90% capacity.
Is that true or does it charge through the CV phase as well?

[squeeforever]

Its not a CC/CV...

[starscream]

Originally Posted by squeeforever

Its not a CC/CV...

If the AF109 doesn't charge through the CV phase then the LipoDapter makes more sense to those of us that already have NiMh/NiCad chargers.

[glassdoctor]

Where did you guys hear that it's not a CC/CV charger?

I think it's a CC/CV charger. All the time I have read about it on rcgroups I don't remember anyone saying it's not a cc/cv... and it certainly gives a complete charge, not just 80-90% or people wouldn't be using it.

For a long time it was THE most popular lithium charger for 2000mah+ packs.

[BrianG]

No matter what it is, it's pretty easy to tell. The current will stay constant while the voltage climbs. When the voltage reaches 4.2v/cell, the voltage stays constant and the current drops. Pretty simple to me.

When using the lipodaptor, it uses pure CC until it hits the volts/cell threshold and simply stops (from what I've read and understand). It's not the charger in this case, it's the adaptor. Maybe that's what is causing the confusion here??

[MetalMan]

The AF109 is a CC charger (in phases 1 and 2), and then it goes into a pulse mode in phase 3. What it does is it pulses the full charge current and monitors the voltage, attempting to keep the voltage at 4.2v/cell. It decreases the occurrence of these pulses as the battery gets more full. This is why some balancers will say they aren't compatible with the 109, since the voltage briefly spikes up, and then drops.

So, the 109 can still do a 100% charge, it just does it differently than normal LiPo chargers. With the hack I'll be doing (adding a couple of resistors), the 109 will see a voltage higher than what is really there (it will display 4.2v when a cell is at 3.6v).

The reason why I got the 109 is because it costs $110 and it can do 170watts. For reference, the Hyperion 1210i costs ~$180 and does 180watts, the ICE can do 120watts for ~$125, and I think the TME Xtrema can do 170watts for ~$200.

[BrianG]

From what I've seen, most "CC/CV" chargers do something like the 109, except they don't pulse. They really do CC throughout the whole charge and then when it gets to the "CV" phase. Then, it's not really CV; they continually adjust the current to keep 4.2v/cell. That's why I call this adaptive CC. :)

The Xtrema is the opposite. It is a CV charger that continually adjusts the charge voltage to push the required current in "CC" mode. In CV mode, it simply locks the voltage at 4.2v/cell. This is directly from the maker via email. When I saw what was going on via V meter and C meter, I emailed hime and he confirmed and explained it. BTW: you are correct; it is 170w.

[MetalMan]

Originally Posted by BrianG

From what I've seen, most "CC/CV" chargers do something like the 109, except they don't pulse. They really do CC throughout the whole charge and then when it gets to the "CV" phase. Then, it's not really CV; they continually adjust the current to keep 4.2v/cell. That's why I call this adaptive CC. :)

The Xtrema is the opposite. It is a CV charger that continually adjusts the charge voltage to push the required current in "CC" mode. In CV mode, it simply locks the voltage at 4.2v/cell. This is directly from the maker via email. When I saw what was going on via V meter and C meter, I emailed hime and he confirmed and explained it. BTW: you are correct; it is 170w.

The Multiplex LN-5014 (same as Hyperion EOS5i) seems like it uses the "adaptive CC" since it reduces the current at the end of the charge before it gets to 4.2v/cell. The Duratrax ICE seems to be more of a CV charger, though. It goes all the way to 4.2v/cell, and although it may go up to 4.21v/cell and then go down to 4.20v/cell, it stays at that voltage while the current is reduced.