Bad news for future MM users. - Page 2 - RC-Monster Forums

BrianG · 03:27 PM

Speaking of sensored/sensorless, do you have any plans on making a sensorless ESC anytime in the future - or at least an ESC that can do both?

I know that sensored have smoother starts with zero cogging, but some of today's sensorless ESCs are getting pretty darned good about that. The Quark specifically is very good about this.

Most conversion kits are just a matter of a motor mount and a battery tray, and maybe a new spot to hold the ESC/receiver/UBEC. Most people can make, or have access to buy, the mounts, so it's mostly a matter of finding an ESC/motor that is powerful enough for our desires. :)

Also, while you're on here, I've heard that the Novak systems are kinda sensitive to gearing. Gear very much beyond the recommended value causes pretty major issues. With these sensorless systems, we can gear up as high as temps allow...

NovakTwo · 09.09.2007, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianG

Speaking of sensored/sensorless, do you have any plans on making a sensorless ESC anytime in the future - or at least an ESC that can do both?

Future sensorless products are definitely on the drawing board--motors, too. We have several exciting product releases before the holidays taking up all of our R&D time.

I know that sensored have smoother starts with zero cogging, but some of today's sensorless ESCs are getting pretty darned good about that. The Quark specifically is very good about this.

Some of the SL controllers are already practically as good as you can get, with that technology. Unless, Novak believes that it can improve the performance, quality or other features--especially the motors---it would be pointless to spend all the R&D resources.

Most conversion kits are just a matter of a motor mount and a battery tray, and maybe a new spot to hold the ESC/receiver/UBEC. Most people can make, or have access to buy, the mounts, so it's mostly a matter of finding an ESC/motor that is powerful enough for our desires. :)

Novak builds Plug 'n Play systems "for the rest of us" or something---don't expect 12s lipo controllers anytime soon!

Also, while you're on here, I've heard that the Novak systems are kinda sensitive to gearing. Gear very much beyond the recommended value causes pretty major issues. With these sensorless systems, we can gear up as high as temps allow...

The Novak motors are protected against thermalling--blue sensor wire. The new sintered rotors have cleared up many of the motor overheating issues, which were more noticeable with the bonded rotors. The escs have the thermal protection set lower than the LRP, for instance.

BL technology is really in its infancy. As time goes on, more and more products will become available. We will also explore making more high performance motors---both sensored and sensorless that do not have the ROAR price cap of $129.00.

BrianG · 09.09.2007, 03:56 PM

Cool, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions! :)

Yeah, I suppose you have to build "for the masses" and not for some of us niche power freaks. Not too many emaxx people will want to fork out two 6s-7s cell packs for 12s-14s total.

NovakTwo · 09.09.2007, 04:25 PM

Much of our time is spent winding and testing slower motors for stock/spec racing---oval, especially. Oval organizations and leagues are establishing BL/Lipo spec events, which is a pretty exciting development.

We have released the 17.5T motor, are about to release the 21.5T, and waiting on approval of the 25.5T motor. In addition we just started shipping the new Crawler products. Maybe next year, we can concentrate on faster items!

The industry really needs to attract more beginners, and many race directors think our BL 13.5T motors are too fast. I realize that forum members here are all about speed, so slower motors and beginner products are not so interesting.

Somewhere along the way, the word "thermalling" became a pejorative. Thermal OL protection was originally designed to warn users against wrong set-ups and bonehead mistakes. It was supposed to be a good, protective feature!

BrianG · 09.09.2007, 05:32 PM

Makes sense. Most of the people here want high speed items AND lots of diff-grinding torque. :) And most here with those types of systems understand the technology and are able to piece together systems. Beginners need plug-n-play systems, but eventually those beginners will become BL freaks like us (hopefully).

lutach · 09.09.2007, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianG

Makes sense. Most of the people here want high speed items AND lots of diff-grinding torque. :) And most here with those types of systems understand the technology and are able to piece together systems. Beginners need plug-n-play systems, but eventually those beginners will become BL freaks like us (hopefully).

I agree with you 100%. Someone need to make a sensored system kind of like the Aveox H series controllers. They handle 32 cells, which is good for 10S, because I think Aveox goes with the 1.4v max for NiCd and the only reason I don't run my H series controllers, is that they won't be repaired if they fail. If Novak comes out with a true HV controller and a bigger motor with the same design as the current HV motors, but with a 5mm, I would be the first one to get it. If Bob Novak needs inputs, he'll get his fare share in this forum. Some of the members are genius compared to lets say me LOL. Hope you pass the info to Bob.

glassdoctor · 09.09.2007, 06:51 PM

NovakTwo... there is plenty of money to be made in the RC industry . I recall seeing some very nice brand new facilities of r/c companies and that doesn't happen by losing money.

Like any industry... some have failed... some have barely made it... and some have made a fortune.

I doubt anyone thinks r/c companies are due to make an appearance on Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous... but please spare us the poor-boy act. Novak is in it for the $$$ like everyone else.

lutach · 09.09.2007, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glassdoctor

NovakTwo... there is plenty of money to be made in the RC industry . I recall seeing some very nice brand new facilities of r/c companies and that doesn't happen by losing money.

Like any industry... some have failed... some have barely made it... and some have made a fortune.

I doubt anyone thinks r/c companies are due to make an appearance on Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous... but please spare us the poor-boy act. Novak is in it for the $$$ like everyone else.

Imagine if Novak was in it for the passion of the hobby. What kind of products would they come out with? I'm in it for the love of the hobby and that is why I'm having my own controller, basically because I got sick and tired of good things only coming out for the flyers. All the companies that are in this industry should really get inputs from some of the members of this forum. I will point out one example. GriffinRU turned the MM into a nice ESC by adding 2 power boards, better capacitors and something else that I can't recall. Patrick owner of Castle Creations made a poor excuse saying the they were going to make the Monster Maxx with stacked boards, but it didn't work out to well. GriffinRU made it work and how come the creator of the ESC didn't? Kind of makes all of us wonder what kind of people are manufacturing all this stuff.

suicideneil · 09.09.2007, 07:59 PM

A few hundred mexicans working in a sweat-shop. In all seriousness though, I would happily kill lots of people for a proper HV sensored system, even if it was just a basic plug & play jobby with very little programming options. The HvMaxx esc is fine enough, and I have had great success with it, but it would be nice if it was 6s capable, and the motor more powerful; the 380 rotor is its biggest failing- fine for stock trucks, but a heavy Maxx needs a bit more power to get it moving. I will commend you and Bob for all the work you do though, as without it I would probably be running brushed motors (God forbid!)...

NovakTwo · 09.09.2007, 08:03 PM

You probably shouldn't bring up "passion" for the R/C industry. Bob got involved in R/C planes when he was a young boy and spent his entire working career in the industry. Novak has been around for 30 years, so the company has had years of involvement in the industry. We even know all of the people who have sold their companies---Losi, Associated, Orion/Peak.

But, I think what you mean by passion is, why doesn't Novak make some of the cool products that posters here want. Making a few, hand made products to be sold to a select group of customers is easy. Manufacturing the products to be sold to thousands of users at prices buyers are willing to pay is another matter.

There is also the matter of service. As mentioned above, some companies (such as Aveox) are not reliable when it comes to servicing their products. Therefore, Novak products have to be designed and manufactured to minimize potential service issues. Those "layer cake" controllers, while cool, are just not feasible for mfg or sale to most customers---too much potential for mis-use, damage or sub-standard performance.

For every product a manufacturer replaces, or gives away, free, the company must sell 5-8 new items to recover the parts/labor/overhead costs of that free item.

Bob, Adnan Khan (Novak's Senior Designer), and the entire tech staff are definitely well-informed about comments on various forums---both the complimentary ones and the not-so-flattering. So keep the ideas and comments flowing.

NovakTwo · 09.09.2007, 08:05 PM

Your wishes should be granted early '08.

Quote:

Originally Posted by suicideneil

A few hundred mexicans working in a sweat-shop. In all seriousness though, I would happily kill lots of people for a proper HV sensored system, even if it was just a basic plug & play jobby with very little programming options. The HvMaxx esc is fine enough, and I have had great success with it, but it would be nice if it was 6s capable, and the motor more powerful; the 380 rotor is its biggest failing- fine for stock trucks, but a heavy Maxx needs a bit more power to get it moving. I will commend you and Bob for all the work you do though, as without it I would probably be running brushed motors (God forbid!)...