Mamba Pro - for all you tech-heads

[Sammus]

Originally Posted by littlegiant

It is supposed to be rated at 100A continuous right? I don't see how the MM can do 100A cont without any advance cooling.

I assuming your measuring current draw somehow to make that claim? I'd be interested in hearing more about what lead you to that conclusion. I've unloaded a 4600mah pack through an MM in under 4 minutes, which is an average current of at least 69A. It got a pretty warm, not too hot though. I had nothing to measure temp with, but it was 35C ambient so I always thought on a cooler day that 100A wouldn't be out of the question....

[J57ltr]

What is continuous? I used to repair/test amplifiers and most of them could not sustain their rated RMS output for more than 10 minutes without going into thermal, if you put a fan on them they would run for longer. Granted they are much less efficient than an ESC, but the heatsinking is HUGE compared to an ESC. This testing was done in a 72* shop with a Astron 200 amp power supply. These weren’t cheap amps either they were PPI/Orion/G&S (The HCCA’s forget it), Rockford Fosgate, Soundstream, A/D/S, and a lot of other high end amps and some cheap ones as well. The only ones I wasn’t able to thermal in 10 minutes were the ones made by Zed (Autotek/Hi-Fonics/Rodek/Earthquake). And I am not talking little amps I even had a Hifonics Colossus, and Zues and Autotek BTS7600 in for repair, Those were 900W-1800W amps

Are they rated continuously with a battery because there is no way that that small of a footprint will sustain than much power continuously? I know the heatsinking ability of the Mamba Max it sucks the heat right out of a soldering iron.

I'm just asking.

Jeff

[lutach]

Originally Posted by J57ltr

What is continuous? I used to repair/test amplifiers and most of them could not sustain their rated RMS output for more than 10 minutes without going into thermal, if you put a fan on them they would run for longer. Granted they are much less efficient than an ESC, but the heatsinking is HUGE compared to an ESC. This testing was done in a 72* shop with a Astron 200 amp power supply. These weren’t cheap amps either they were PPI/Orion/G&S (The HCCA’s forget it), Rockford Fosgate, Soundstream, A/D/S, and a lot of other high end amps and some cheap ones as well. The only ones I wasn’t able to thermal in 10 minutes were the ones made by Zed (Autotek/Hi-Fonics/Rodek/Earthquake). And I am not talking little amps I even had a Hifonics Colossus, and Zues and Autotek BTS7600 in for repair, Those were 900W-1800W amps

Are they rated continuously with a battery because there is no way that that small of a footprint will sustain than much power continuously? I know the heatsinking ability of the Mamba Max it sucks the heat right out of a soldering iron.

I'm just asking.

Jeff

I used to love my what so called cheating AMPs lol. I still have 2 25 watt cheating AMP, one is a Orion HCCA 225 and the other I'm not sure what brand it is, but it out lasted the Orion. I had a few of the HiFonics Colossus and a couple of Autoteks through my audio years and they were awesome. I now have a few more powerful AMPs, but don't have the desire for a loud system at the moment lol.

A lot of people are still confused about ratings and that;s why Castle and Tekin don't really post them. I like to use the term continuous peak or burst which will basically mean that. Example: Mamba Monster rated for 120A, use this for a max peak amp when in hard acceleration (A data recorder comes handy to set a base number). I know the ESC will easily go over that rating for an instant, but I rather stay safe. I'm still searching for a car ESC and motor that can provide a real 100A constant and handle the same continuous amps. It has to be small or about the size the pop tarts as I have the vehicle to accommodate one.

[Sammus]

The castle controllers are advertised as industrial solutions that wouldn't necessarily be running from batteries, so I imagine their continuous ratings are accurate

see here http://www.castlespecialprojects.com...ntrollers.html for their industrial ratings for different kinds of cooling.

Note the 'mamba max pro' has max input of 12V and there is no regular mamba max. I think they have been calling that industrial version the pro - its been labelled as that for quite a while now.

[J57ltr]

I still have a boat load of older amps still to this day, but only have a Kicker L5 and a Soundstream Reference 500SX, and an older Sony cd player with some Boston 1" added to the rest of the stock system.

Heck I don't even think the industrial stuff is ready yet. I just checked into a system for a small conveyor we build and there aren't really any options, the only option I was given was PWM signal in just like a hobby system (Who uses that?); a switch that would activate the motor or the motor would run on applied power. Controlling speed was a problem and there isn't a way to communicate to it. The speed control had a great price and I was told for an engineering fee I could get it configured “anyway I like” Which I was perfectly fine for a custom, but the motor price was ludicrous, and apparently nobody wants to make you a custom motor unless you are buying 10K units. I could spend less on a VFD and a standard 3 phase motor for cheaper, but it wouldn't be as small. So I’ll stick with what we have until I find a better answer.

I know the industrial line has a larger heatsinks but unless they have a way to mount a larger heatsink I doubt they ones can handle it. I got a million questions about what kind of transient voltages I see and all these battery related questions. It’s an industrial application how many run on batteries everybody uses power supplies.

Ever see a 16 HP VFD? They are much larger and are not passively cooled, and they start out with 230V-480V so the current is much lower.

I guess I am just used to stuff running continuously, like 24/7, maybe a few days a year off, but all the time is what I am saying.

I know my MM will handle a lot I have run the 7700 combo bashing on grass on NiMH and never had a problem. I run A123 now and see spikes as high as 178 amps on my Elogger, and have run more than 10 minutes on 3S2P on a Fagieo 4436KV with spikes in the 140A range I have no doubt in a car it’s not a big deal but a loaded industrial application.

So what is continuous? Is there any standardization in RC?

Jeff

[littlegiant]

Originally Posted by Sammus

I assuming your measuring current draw somehow to make that claim? I'd be interested in hearing more about what lead you to that conclusion. I've unloaded a 4600mah pack through an MM in under 4 minutes, which is an average current of at least 69A. It got a pretty warm, not too hot though. I had nothing to measure temp with, but it was 35C ambient so I always thought on a cooler day that 100A wouldn't be out of the question....

Ok now that is weird. I am using the MM in my 1/10 buggy that weighs around 1.7Kg. Using watts up meter for peak current. Peaks at around 73A on 2 S lipo so I am thinking that average current is probably alot lower. 10 - 30A I supposed. With a fan, temp taken was around 61C at an ambient temp of 30-32C. I was told that a 60C MM in a 1/10 is the normal temp. I guess that is normal then. But considering current peaking at 73A on high traction surface, I am not really sure if the MM can handle 100A continuous without thermalling. Maybe I have a defected MM? I just got it as a replacement for an old MM in a non-warrenty claim and it looks totally brand new. As far as I remember, the old MM wasn't running as hot as this current one. Maybe it is the new firmware?

[SpEEdyBL]

Try using the highest timing possible when running novak type motors on the MM esc. There is about a 30 degree timing advance in the sensors so that is where you should shoot for.

I tested the rpm of my novak hv 7.5 on the Mamba Monster and the HV-Maxx esc. Unloaded kv on the MMM was about 2550 at zero degrees timing and 2600 with 10 degrees. On the hv-maxx, unloaded kv was around 2900.

[RC-Monster Mike]

The "continuous" discharge rating on our ESC specs usually does not mean "to eternity". What it meant years ago was "ability to continuously discharge a 2000mah battery at the stated amp rate", for example.
In other words, the "continuous" rating is not "a complete statement" in reality. When the cutting edge battery pack could only deliver 2000mah, for example, the "continuous" rating only needed to be capable of delivering the rated current for the duration of this capacity(100 amp rated cont. discharge of a 2000mah nicad pack would only need to sustain this discharge rate for 1.2 minutes to meet its rated discharge capability).
I am pretty sure that the 2000mah is not the capacity status quo of today, but there is a likely specific capacity attached to the continuous discharge statement(along with a given temperature, etc.). :)

[J57ltr]

Originally Posted by RC-Monster Mike

The "continuous" discharge rating on our ESC specs usually does not mean "to eternity". What it meant years ago was "ability to continuously discharge a 2000mah battery at the stated amp rate", for example.
In other words, the "continuous" rating is not "a complete statement" in reality. When the cutting edge battery pack could only deliver 2000mah, for example, the "continuous" rating only needed to be capable of delivering the rated current for the duration of this capacity(100 amp rated cont. discharge of a 2000mah nicad pack would only need to sustain this discharge rate for 1.2 minutes to meet its rated discharge capability).
I am pretty sure that the 2000mah is not the capacity status quo of today, but there is a likely specific capacity attached to the continuous discharge statement(along with a given temperature, etc.). :)

Well that explains things a little better, I have always looked at these specs out of the corner of my eye. Thanks for some clairification on that. So who would like to chime in on the new spec?

Jeff

[gixxer]

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

And the Beta units used an older FET -- the production units are using a new technology FET that can handle even more current.

We're pretty stoked about the MMP -- production starts in a week.

Any update on these? When should they start shipping? My hyper 9e needs a new sensored esc.

[Pdelcast]

Originally Posted by J57ltr

Well that explains things a little better, I have always looked at these specs out of the corner of my eye. Thanks for some clairification on that. So who would like to chime in on the new spec?

Jeff

At Castle, we don't rate our controllers based on a battery size and lifetime. Rather, we rate our controllers based on temperature rise and stabilization. So if you look at something like, say, the Phoenix-ICE-100 (rated at 100A continuous) it can handle 100A for as long as you want to put 100A through it, and will temperature stabilize at about 80C (176F) with a 5mph airflow over the controller.

We decided not to put a current rating on our RC car controllers because we didn't agree with the way the industry rated controllers. There are controllers on the market that are rated at amperage levels that would actually MELT 12ga copper wire. (which is a ridiculous claim... most brushed controllers on the market that claim hundreds of amps of capability can actually only handle about 30-40A by Castle's rating method)

And so we decided not to get into an amperage "arms race" with companies that deliberately mislead the public.

[Pdelcast]

Originally Posted by gixxer

Any update on these? When should they start shipping? My hyper 9e needs a new sensored esc.

They are scheduled for production on September 14th.

[gixxer]

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

They are scheduled for production on September 14th.

thanks for the update. I was hoping for a little sooner but I know it will be worth it.

[Kcaz25]

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

At Castle, we don't rate our controllers based on a battery size and lifetime. Rather, we rate our controllers based on temperature rise and stabilization. So if you look at something like, say, the Phoenix-ICE-100 (rated at 100A continuous) it can handle 100A for as long as you want to put 100A through it, and will temperature stabilize at about 80C (176F) with a 5mph airflow over the controller.

We decided not to put a current rating on our RC car controllers because we didn't agree with the way the industry rated controllers. There are controllers on the market that are rated at amperage levels that would actually MELT 12ga copper wire. (which is a ridiculous claim... most brushed controllers on the market that claim hundreds of amps of capability can actually only handle about 30-40A by Castle's rating method)

And so we decided not to get into an amperage "arms race" with companies that deliberately mislead the public.

Light bulb! Great post Mr. Patrick!

[littlegiant]

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

At Castle, we don't rate our controllers based on a battery size and lifetime. Rather, we rate our controllers based on temperature rise and stabilization. So if you look at something like, say, the Phoenix-ICE-100 (rated at 100A continuous) it can handle 100A for as long as you want to put 100A through it, and will temperature stabilize at about 80C (176F) with a 5mph airflow over the controller.

We decided not to put a current rating on our RC car controllers because we didn't agree with the way the industry rated controllers. There are controllers on the market that are rated at amperage levels that would actually MELT 12ga copper wire. (which is a ridiculous claim... most brushed controllers on the market that claim hundreds of amps of capability can actually only handle about 30-40A by Castle's rating method)

And so we decided not to get into an amperage "arms race" with companies that deliberately mislead the public.

How did Castle rate the MM?