What kind of performance would the Tesla have

[lutach]

Originally Posted by nieles

a123 started producing 15AH and 20AH lifepo4 cells.

here is an link to a thread on a e-bike forum with some serious testing on those cells.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/vie...p?f=14&t=15093

I saw them a while back and know the company making the cells for A123 (Not China BAK, but another one). The LiFePO4 chemistry is safer and Tesla could look into it like other EV makers are doing. The latest LiFePO4 cells made for the military such as a 10Ah cell capable of 1500A cont. and a 25Ah capable of 500A cont. both at 25 degrees C. Tesla can get such cells and I really don't know why they aren't doing it. Even with the new A123 soft LiFePO4, the Tesla would be a much better vehicle. It would be safer, perform better and possibly have better range due to the cell's ability to handle higher amps.

[redshift]

Some seriously STOUT powertrains there Luc. I don't know enough about what's really involved to knock any 1:1 electrics... I'm just so tired of seeing these "breakthrough" EVs that just always fall short in one area or another. Tesla's claim is 200+ miles, but Top Gear ran it dry in 55. Evidently there have been successful tests of 230+ miles, but I wonder if it can deliver that consistently. Going to a single speed may be great for simplicity and durability, but at the cost of some efficiency maybe??

What the hell are you supposed to do when a few cells get weak, or crap out entirely... buy a whole new pack?!

Seems to me they should be using the largest (not neccessarily highest discharge) lipo cells available, and make it 'modular' - so that cells can be individually tested or changed.

In focusing on performance, they actually did a bad thing IMO. This is not the EV most EV-inclined customers are looking for. They should look into a more practical (yes, slower) vehicle if they REALLY want to turn the internal combustion world on it's ear.

The SSC EV looks SO much more promising, but again a niche market. It's almost as if they made a blind leap from dull and lame EV- to Uber EV, completely missing the middle-market buyers. Where is the electric for the common man???

Almost as if the dinosaur petrochems are still calling the shots.... tyuh.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by redshift

Some seriously STOUT powertrains there Luc. I don't know enough about what's really involved to knock any 1:1 electrics... I'm just so tired of seeing these "breakthrough" EVs that just always fall short in one area or another. Tesla's claim is 200+ miles, but Top Gear ran it dry in 55. Evidently there have been successful tests of 230+ miles, but I wonder if it can deliver that consistently. Going to a single speed may be great for simplicity and durability, but at the cost of some efficiency maybe??

What the hell are you supposed to do when a few cells get weak, or crap out entirely... buy a whole new pack?!

Seems to me they should be using the largest (not neccessarily highest discharge) lipo cells available, and make it 'modular' - so that cells can be individually tested or changed.

In focusing on performance, they actually did a bad thing IMO. This is not the EV most EV-inclined customers are looking for. They should look into a more practical (yes, slower) vehicle if they REALLY want to turn the internal combustion world on it's ear.

The SSC EV looks SO much more promising, but again a niche market. It's almost as if they made a blind leap from dull and lame EV- to Uber EV, completely missing the middle-market buyers. Where is the electric for the common man???

Almost as if the dinosaur petrochems are still calling the shots.... tyuh.

Yes sir, very stout and made by a family of great people who holds speed records and their products can be found in the best of the best. The SSC EV, I'm still waiting for, but I doubt it'll happen. I've shown actual products that nobody in the industry seems to care about. I sent zeropoint 2 datasheets of what I can get and I hope he comes in here and talk about it a little. The info can't be posted, but we can talk about it. I can have vehicles made to cover all the market. You want small efficient city cars to real super cars, it can be done. Do you know how Tesla got started? They actually took the AC Proportion TZero to potential investors and got going. The first guy they fooled was Elon Musk, but then Mr. Musk with all the cash took over. I'm actually sending all the info to some folks and see if they have any interest. The products to make some amazing vehicles already exists and could only get better if they get used. If the high performance comes out now, in no time it'll get better and keep evolving to better and better technology.

[redshift]

Few more things, the price obviously is somewhat due to the 8 trips or whatever.. the chassis makes across the Atlantic. Lotus ships off a carcass, goes to Tesla, gets a stupidly complicated power system, back to Lotus for some blinkers, etc.

IT IS OBVIOUS by now, to anyone on RCM at least, that we could have a substantial market segment of 100% electric vehicles. Designed for 'sane' highway speed, with the right power system, they could get 600-800 miles OR BETTER.

With a composite chassis, the RIGHT batteries, and a real-world motor, they could be NO more expensive than a Camry. I'd say even less actually when you think about just how few parts there are compared to any standard vehicle.

Yeah, why is none of this happening? We're destined to drive iron bulldozers until the end.

[redshift]

I see you posted while I was semi-ranting hehe. I know it must be frustrating to be consciously ignored by these types. Elon Musk have any oil ties? HMM.

Maybe I am just a cynical SOB, but the only way I see the real thing happening is on an individual level, or very small production runs. You know the saying.. "if you want it done right...."

I know you and ZP could (will!) make any of these rides look like a joke, keep fighting the good fight guys. The rest of us will continue to do it on a 1/10 to 1/5 scale level.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by redshift

Few more things, the price obviously is somewhat due to the 8 trips or whatever.. the chassis makes across the Atlantic. Lotus ships off a carcass, goes to Tesla, gets a stupidly complicated power system, back to Lotus for some blinkers, etc.

IT IS OBVIOUS by now, to anyone on RCM at least, that we could have a substantial market segment of 100% electric vehicles. Designed for 'sane' highway speed, with the right power system, they could get 600-800 miles OR BETTER.

With a composite chassis, the RIGHT batteries, and a real-world motor, they could be NO more expensive than a Camry. I'd say even less actually when you think about just how few parts there are compared to any standard vehicle.

Yeah, why is none of this happening? We're destined to drive iron bulldozers until the end.

You forgot to mention that the Tesla body is actually not made by Lotus. It is carbon fiber and made by another company, so it has one good thing, but it still didn't help much on the weight of the vehicle.

My ideas have actually been calculated by a few engineers and it can actually give a very long range without the need on a I.C. engine like the Chevy Volt, Fisker, Prius, Insight or any other hybrid.

I will start copying some of the 2D drawings I made back in the early 90's so you guys can see how my mind works.

[redshift]

True Luc, I think in this case the CF is pure gimmick, it is after all a toy for CEOs right?

"so you can see how my mind works"

But I'm scared

No that sounds interesting, do posteth!

[lutach]

Originally Posted by redshift

True Luc, I think in this case the CF is pure gimmick, it is after all a toy for CEOs right?

"so you can see how my mind works"

But I'm scared

No that sounds interesting, do posteth!

Nothing scary. Just some drawings I made about 20yrs ago. I'll start copying them tomorrow and post them here.

[lutach]

I was browsing through some sites and found something funny:

http://www.hybridcars.com/culture/ta...ans-25197.html

[lutach]

I'll try to copy my drawings tomorrow if I'm not too busy.

[lutach]

Martin Eberhard Tesla's co-founder might be working for VW. If it's really true, lets see what they can do. The E-Tron looks nice.

[redshift]

Originally Posted by lutach

I was browsing through some sites and found something funny:

http://www.hybridcars.com/culture/ta...ans-25197.html

HA! That's great

I`m kinda wanting one of these

www.zeromotorcycles.com

[lutach]

Originally Posted by Erevocanuck

I`m kinda wanting one of these

www.zeromotorcycles.com

I like those, but you could do your own. Instead of using a brushed motor, you can go with a brushless.

[Lauri]

lutach, check the energy density for the Panasonic cells Tesla is using and about which you posted the spec-sheet pdf. They are 202Wh/kg - which is VERY GOOD, if the specs can be trusted!

For comparison on my 1/8 buggy I'm using 5Ah 4S softcase LiPos (35C and 40C) which weigh around 530g which makes only 140Wh/kg. Sure those can give out A LOT power but when speaking about Tesla you are speaking about a regular car, not a racer or a dragster. So my 1/8 buggy battery pack is +45% lighter than the Panasonic cells. If I would not be racing 10-minute heats but 60 or 120-minute heats I'd be running those Panasonic cells just like Tesla :)

If I would be building an electric car (just give me the money ;) I'd also be getting the batteries which have the best energy density and can provide enough power/curren.

You've all talked about heavy batteries and then you want those heavy batteries just for the fact that they'd be able to deliver more power. Obviously the lighter cells can provide _enough_ power while being 45% lighter for an example.

If you run 10-minute then you need avarege of 6C current from the batteries (60min/10min=6). If you'd like to drive around 3 hours with your electric 1/1 car then you'd only need 60min/180min=0.3C batteries. With a fullsize car you are not going to accelerate and brake every 3 seconds like you are doing with small scale RC-cars. You maybe accelerate for 4 seconds to reach 100kmh and then drive until next red light.

In real life you only need 0.3C capable batteries that can provide the maximum power for 5 or 10 seconds. What's the time it takes for Tesla to reach its maximum speed? It won't be more than 10 sec I'm guessing.

For passanger car I'd like to have a battery, that:
- has good lifetime and many lifecycles
- can give out enough power to accelerate the car up to 100kmh in decent time ie 5s for sports car, 10s for regular car
- has best available energy density so you don't have to accelarate and brake the extra mass all the time
- has ok cold performance.Won't like to spend too much power to keep the battery very warm.