Monster GT Conversion With A Center Diff

[Krawlin]

Originally Posted by suicideneil

I didnt like it at first, but now its 99% there it actually looks rather smashing

What I would do is grab some of those tiny mini hand files and give it another going over, straighten up some edges and corners etc, then polish & clear coat it; too nice to cover in paint.

I think a solid one-piece version of this machined from a block of alloy ( a la UE mono-block ) would be even more awesome

Originally Posted by JThiessen

I agree with Neil. How come you didn't try to make it out of AL? You can Plasma cut it, and you can MIG weld it.....

Just curious if you noticed if the holes were any harder to drill? Plasma cutting tends to harden the material - but since you then welded it afterwards, that may have reversed that process...

Originally Posted by Overdriven

I like it. Its not as "finished" of a piece like you'd get from milling it out of a solid chunk of AL. But thats part of the beauty of it, function over form and making do with what you got on hand.

It would be interesting to see this mount done in AL, both monoblock style, and welded up in a similar fashion to what you did. But if you don't have a spool gun for your MIG thats not possible. Although with a few more screws for the bracing, this mount could be made with no welding whatsoever. Either way, I like the enginuity and the final product. Especially the bracing.

Thanks, means alot coming from you guys.


To Neil, not sure yet if I am going to clean it up more with files, etc. Like Overdriven said, part of the cool factor is the "not perfect but very functional" finish of it, which I kind of like. However, I may polish it to a mirror finish and clear coat it, not sure yet.

To JThiessen, I didn't make it out of aluminum for a few reasons, 1 being price, not to sound like a cheapo here, but I have free access to steel at the welding shop at the community college where I take welding classes (as well as free access to the PlasmaCam CNC plasma cutter there, all of the welding machines, and all of their tools), and aluminum would have cost alot, I would have had to raise the price of the ones I wanted to sell by ALOT, and I wouldn't be able to sell any for that kind of price because RCM Mike's setup is much nicer and would probably be cheaper anyway. I do have access to a spool gun, but for the price (free to me if you don't count the cost of the welding classes), steel is just as good. Weight isn't that much of an issue in an MT anyway.

Also, I didn't notice the holes being any harder to drill, but I'm sure these have some hardening, because they were dunked in cool water right after being cut out, and I did tack welds and went from 1 area to the next when welding it, so it didn't build up very much heat from welding, probably not enough to reverse any previous hardening.

Originally Posted by rawfuls

I believe he didn't use AL or anything else because he can get the hot-rolled steel quicker, and a more.....supply at once.
Don't want to give anything away incase he doesn't want me to.

I didn't use AL because of price and even though I do have access to a spool gun, I have never welded aluminum before, so I didn't really want to try it on something like this.

Originally Posted by lincpimp

When welding material that thick with a mig (or pretty much any welding device) you will need to "V" the ends of the material where you want to weld. That way the weld penetrates the material properly. A bench grinder would do fine, just grind an angle on the piece, and weld in the V that you get when the place the ground piece against the flat piece. Looking at your welds the welder seem to be set about right for voltage, maybe lower the wire speed slightly.

Otherwise i like the result, not going to bend easily. Get good with the welds and you will not have to grind at all on them. I like a nice weld over a ground weld.

The top plate has a slight angle at the ends of the "legs" that attach to the motor plate, enough to get good weld penetration so I made sure that it did. The braces were somewhat like that, they had to be ground shorter so I put a bit more angle on them so they werent flat against the top plate and motor plate to get better weld penetration. I also tried to do a single bead and make it look nice, but I guess I am just not used to welding very small stuff yet, everything I have been doing in my welding class is 4 inch long strips (lap, t, butt, in flat, horizontal, verticle, and overhead positions), so I still need to get used to doing smaller stuff, I get all 95% grades on all of my welds for the class though, so I think I can trust my welds on this motor mount. Now if I could TIG weld, this would be a different story, I'm sure I could get a really nice bead small enough to not need grinding but still very strong if I TIG welded these. I agree though, I do prefer a nice weld bead over a ground down weld, I just haven't had the experience yet to figure out how to do a nice looking small weld bead on thicker material like this.

[lincpimp]

Lower wire speed will help. And you will get a feel for it thru experience. I still turn out crap welds sometimes, no one is 100% all of the time!

[JThiessen]

Originally Posted by Overdriven

Hmm, I just assumed the spool gun was for a different reason, tips, contaminating the chord, etc. While I like learning new stuff especially techniques like that, you suck, cause now I'm going to have to try it out and do projects I was putting off! Lol

Actually, you'll need a tank of Argon gas too...not cheap for the additional tank (I think i paid about 240 for mine).

Krawlin - have you done much torch welding? I'm kinda curious now if you could do the same assembly using some .125 or thinner steel plate and torch weld it together. That would leave a very nice finish, and I'd think it would be just as strong.

good point on your choice of steel. I'm just the opposite here - I have an unlimited supply of Aluminum, but very little steel (tends to make the big birds too heavy!!).

[redshift]

Not bad krawlin, with .023" wire MIG you could get some smaller beads, with just using a small circular motion. Lots of welders will only do that with stick welding, but it's almost always beneficial regardless the process you're using.

With a newer squarewave TIG it's possible to use a 2% Thoriated tungsten ground to a point with AC, which is what you need for some gorgeous aluminum beads. MIG is a great place to start, but once you've done some stainless with a TIG, nothing else compares.

Looks pretty good, keep it up.

[Overdriven]

Originally Posted by Krawlin

Like Overdriven said, part of the cool factor is the "not perfect but very functional" finish of it, which I kind of like. However, I may polish it to a mirror finish and clear coat it, not sure yet.

Great minds think alike! I like the bling, but there's somethng about being able to say "look what I made without my own cnc, lathe, etc" that adds a certain cool factor. And for a basher MT, I personally wouldn't go through the trouble of cleaning up the finished one. But you'll get better and end up making the next ones even better anyway, so.

Originally Posted by JThiessen

Actually, you'll need a tank of Argon gas too...not cheap for the additional tank (I think i paid about 240 for mine).

Tanks are cheap for me. I use old 20lb CO2 fire extinguisher tanks from work. I just hydrotest it after hours, and I only have to pay for the valve and fill. And paint the argon a different color so I don't mix them up!

[Krawlin]

Originally Posted by JThiessen

Actually, you'll need a tank of Argon gas too...not cheap for the additional tank (I think i paid about 240 for mine).

Krawlin - have you done much torch welding? I'm kinda curious now if you could do the same assembly using some .125 or thinner steel plate and torch weld it together. That would leave a very nice finish, and I'd think it would be just as strong.

good point on your choice of steel. I'm just the opposite here - I have an unlimited supply of Aluminum, but very little steel (tends to make the big birds too heavy!!).

I take an oxy-acetylene welding course in addition to my GMAW / MIG welding class, and to be honest I'm not all that great at torch welding. I am where I am supposed to be in my welds, maybe a bit ahead of the rest of the class, but I'm just good enough with a torch to get me by with a low A (90% usually) grade. However, I am the farthest ahead of the rest of the class in my MIG class, its much easier for me, and I really enjoy doing it. I don't have a real steady hand which is part of my problem with torch welding, even resting my arm on something doesn't always help. I can turn out some good welds with MIG (Here is a link to just a few of my welds, what is shown in there is flat lap, flat T, and the really good looking T welds are my horizontal T's - http://s291.photobucket.com/albums/l...Krawlin/welds/).

Originally Posted by redshift

Not bad krawlin, with .023" wire MIG you could get some smaller beads, with just using a small circular motion. Lots of welders will only do that with stick welding, but it's almost always beneficial regardless the process you're using.

With a newer squarewave TIG it's possible to use a 2% Thoriated tungsten ground to a point with AC, which is what you need for some gorgeous aluminum beads. MIG is a great place to start, but once you've done some stainless with a TIG, nothing else compares.

Looks pretty good, keep it up.

Thanks!

And actually I am currently using .035'' wire in MIG, didn't think to change it out for thinner wire, but then again I have no idea what wire sizes they have in the welding shop here, probably thinner stuff but I didn't think to look. And I was taught to do the circular motion with MIG to get the nice bead and proper penetration, etc., but like I said before, when I tried it with these motor mounts, I ended up with a big fat glob, so I did a whole bunch of tack welds and very short welds in some places. Like Linc was saying though, probably lowering my settings would have helped, although to really end up with a good small bead I would have had to drop down to smaller wire like you were saying.

[JThiessen]

Geez.....Friday night, the wife is out of town, and here i am looking at pictures of your stinking welds..... Christ I'm old....

How did the cuts look on your welds? (I assume they cut through the welds to check porosity and depth>)

Is stick welding still taught? Horizontal overheads killed me - aced all the vertical welding - had a knack for the weave, I guess.

[Krawlin]

Originally Posted by JThiessen

Geez.....Friday night, the wife is out of town, and here i am looking at pictures of your stinking welds..... Christ I'm old....

How did the cuts look on your welds? (I assume they cut through the welds to check porosity and depth>)

Is stick welding still taught? Horizontal overheads killed me - aced all the vertical welding - had a knack for the weave, I guess.

And since this is a "first level" or "beginners/intry/starting out level" GMAW / MIG class, none of the welds I do in this class will be xray'd/tested, the teacher inspects them and signs off on them. The teacher has been welding for like 25 years or so, teaches MIG, TIG, and stick/arc welding, owns a welding business, and is certified for various welding things (not sure what certs. there are, I'm assuming for certain diameters of pipe and such), so he seems to really know his stuff about welding, can tell what it is I am doing wrong on any given weld, very helpful. But anyway, its usually in the upper level classes that they have some kind of independent lab group or VICA, something like that, cant remember exactly who/what, come to the college at the end of the semester, have you do a few welds, and gotta pay like $75, and then they xray the weld and cut it open with a shear I believe to look at it, and if everything looks good, it passes and then you get certified for whatever it is you welded (pipe, structural beam, etc.) And yes, they do still teach stick/arc welding.

[The Dude]

Hi

Nice conversion !!

it's funny cause I started to convert my MGT... starting of thinking about it !!

here's a pic of my differential support



I gonna use a MMM with a CC-Neu 1518/1Y motor
The center diff is a X-Ray from a XB808

and here my MGT (a lot of upgrading...)



follow your post

(sorry for my English...I 'm French )

[Krawlin]

Wow, that looks great! What brand of shock towers are those and where can I get them? Or did you make those yourself? Also, your design was the "final push" for me to update my design a bit, thanks for posting that! I'm looking forward to seeing how yours turns out.




Since my motor plate bolts to a center diff mount, doesn't look as clean as it could, and probably not as strong as it could be either. So I decided to update my design, and used "The Dude"'s motor mount as inspiration for an update.....




Since 3/16'' is a bit on the thin side to drill for M3, I am going to slice a section of the bottom off the motor plate. Then, I am going to cut a piece of 1/4'' plate to the proper height, cross drill it with the same hole spacing as the current diff mount and thread it for M3, then weld it to the motor plate. Next, I will cut out a couple of tabs from 1/4'' plate, drill completely through them, and weld them to the motor plate at chassis level, then drill through the chassis to use a bolt at each tab. Finally, I will weld a thinner plate over the current hole for the outdrive in the motor plate, which happens to be the perfect diameter for the center diff bearing, and put a hole in the welded on plate just big enough for the outdrive to fit through but wont allow the bearing to go through, basically turning this into a center diff mount and motor mount with just 2 separate pieces. Simple, strong, effective, and should look cleaner than the current setup once it's done. I should have some progress on this by the end of the week or this coming weekend, so stay tuned for more updates, and as usual, comments questions, and more importantly, suggestions, are always welcome.

[The Dude]

It's the NewEra tower, not really cheap, but very strong !!

thanks for the comment on my support, it's my first design...w/ google sketchup.... a friend gonna make it on AutoCAD, and after a another friend make it on CNC... it's AL of 6 mm , using M4 screw under the chassis, and I made a ...look a this (I don't know how to explain this in English... )
in blue it's a lexan sheet of 1 mm for protect the central diff..




I stay tuned ... and if you've got another vid'

[Krawlin]

Are those New Era towers a 2 piece design where the bottom "feet" bolt to the top? Seems like it from the pictures on their website but I can't really tell.

Anyway, looks great! Keep us updated on progress on your setup.



Just bought two M3 taps (bought two in case one of them broke) for my motor mount design change.... $5 each from SnapOn, but they are made in the USA and SnapOn is pretty good quality, so I guess it's not too bad of a price, but I see why full tap and die sets cost a small fortune. I also bought a couple drill bits of the proper size (2.5mm and 0.0995'', basically the same size but one is a backup in case one of them breaks). Anyway, probably going to cut out the pieces I need for the design change/update tomorrow, so stay tuned!

[The Dude]

yes it's a 2 pieces design

[Krawlin]

Ever have any problems with the screws that hold the 2 pieces together bending/snapping? Call me paranoid but I don't like the 2 piece design really unless it keyed together or something, not just bolt together.

I just broke another rear shock tower, 3rd one in 3 weeks. Not from landing upside down or anything this time either, did a really high jump, landing perfectly flat, but the shock tower couldn't take the stress I guess, must have been weak points in the tower though because it broke in 2 different places, not evenly across. I may try GH Racing towers, I've had good luck with their parts on my Maxx and they use a 1 piece design.


This truck needs some work though, the bugs are starting to come out. The steering setup is decent at best, I need a cam type servo saver setup for it. AE and NewEra both have a setup like that. Also need aluminum shock towers, and on the front arm mounts, I need to put in a longer screw with a nut behind it to keep from stripping out the chassis's threads (which I did to the right front upper arm mount already years ago when it was still nitro). I also need a better servo, this Hitec 645 just isn't cutting it, the truck turns like it's a semi. But other than that, so far so good.

here is my MGT, check out.



3680 moto