Freeze's Savage Flux "Frostbyte II" build thread

[josh9mille]

Originally Posted by Soro

Hello Freez

Nice project

Are you going to place the esc between the tvp's at the back of the motor
( there should be enough space ) know the esc stands above
the motor ?

After looking at the FLM TVPs I dont think the holes are there for the rear ESC mount.

[thzero]

There should be see: http://www.fastlanemachine.net/prodd...?prod=FLM49900

Originally Posted by josh9mille

After looking at the FLM TVPs I dont think the holes are there for the rear ESC mount.

I'd definetly not bury the ESC between the TVPs... you want to make sure it has adequate airflow for cooling.

[Soro]

Josh9mille and thzero

Than it is a different setup than my TCS xl plates.
on the TCS plates I have space to put the esc behind the motor.

Starting to have second thoughts on the whole "XL" upgrade after actually driving the truck yesterday. I dunno wether its because of the XL chassis, wide axles, stock wheels or the white springs, but I had a helluva time keep that thing under control at high speed in the dirt. It kept wanting to fishtail everytime I tried to correct the steering and then it would just over correct and flip on its side like a retarded turtle.

It was nearly impossible to do a wheelie of any kind, which I do enjoy doing off and on. I knew the XL frame was gonna cut that down but now its nearly impossible to do. I also think the longer frame is preventing me from be able to adjust my trucks flight pattern when I take a jump, its slower to react when I hit the throttle to bring the nose up, let alone do a backflip.

I also found that these GT-2 tires really suck in the dirt, I was sliding all over the place in the dirt and rocks, I looked like a dirt drifter. I don't remember them being that bad on my First flux but on this build, they suck hard. So i'm replacing them with "Frostbyte's" proven GT-S tires with new rims and installing HPI firm foams inside them to reduce sidewall compression

Either i've got my setup wrong or I had the wrong idea with what to experience driving an XL Flux vs the standard. I remember my first Flux actually being more agile and quicker to respond to steering and throttle input. I"ve also had worries from day one with the Xl axles, that im making the truck less "bashable" as a result of the larger angle on the suspension arms which thus will put alot more pressure on parts in the event of the crash.

I'm licking my first bash wounds after breaking the FLM rear dogbone and puncturing a rear tire, so I've got some time to sort this through.

Any insight or suggestions would be greatly appreciated before I continue the project.

[thzero]

Originally Posted by Freezebyte

I dunno wether its because of the XL chassis, wide axles, stock wheels or the white springs, but I had a helluva time keep that thing under control at high speed in the dirt. It kept wanting to fishtail everytime I tried to correct the steering and then it would just over correct and flip on its side like a retarded turtle.

It's a monster truck, it is going to roll, etc. Standard Flux does the same thing; I have had fun with my buddies Flux (standard OOB RTR version) and may it rolls, leans, falls over, etc. all the time especially in comparison to my RC8Te. Tons of fun though!!

If you have fishtail issues, you should read the Triple Diff Basics; the tranny is just considered a locked center diff and see if that helps.

Originally Posted by Freezebyte

It was nearly impossible to do a wheelie of any kind, which I do enjoy doing off and on. I knew the XL frame was gonna cut that down but now its nearly impossible to do.

Can't imagine why. Are you sure your slipper clutch isn't slipping too much? You have enough punch control for instant application of power? Yes, the XL is about 2.5" longer, so physics does say it'll be a bit harder to do so. However, I can do wheelies with my RC8Te (running 5S, CC2200Kv) which is like ~.5" shorter than the XL, and it has a center diff which makes wheelies a bit more difficult as the power goes to the unloaded from wheels. I'd double check all your settings.

Originally Posted by Freezebyte

I also think the longer frame is preventing me from be able to adjust my trucks flight pattern when I take a jump.

Maybe. Perhaps it is just a case of getting used to it. After all most truggies are about the same wheelbase and racers don't seem to have an issue with it.

As for the tires I really like Badlands. But I do want to try the new Trenchers; they look like they are going to have some good grip.

Originally Posted by Freezebyte

Either i've got my setup wrong or I had the wrong idea with what to experience driving an XL Flux vs the standard. I remember my first Flux actually being more agile and quicker to respond to steering and throttle input.

Shorter wheelbase is generally a bit more agile. Wider should be a bit more stable, but it can also can effect handling characteristics. Every adjustment you make on any vehicle (racing of any short hammers this home, whether it be rc, 1:1, virtual, etc) is always a trade off.

Could be you are using too much throttle when turning? I know when comparing my driving style and my buddy's with his Flux, I tended to roll less and turned sharper because I wasn't always hammering the throttle as much and reduced speed when entering a turn.

Or perhaps your memory is off... :)

Originally Posted by Freezebyte

I"ve also had worries from day one with the Xl axles, that im making the truck less "bashable" as a result of the larger angle on the suspension arms which thus will put alot more pressure on parts in the event of the crash.

You worry too much. Just go out and bash the dumb thing and if it breaks, fix it! Thats a core concept, and enjoyment, of just bashing! Granted you don't want something to break first time you do something stupid, but nonetheless when bashing something will always break.

I will say based on experience with my Savage X Baja 5B conversion, you are more likely to break an axle (where the axle meets with the nut threads is the weakests point I've found) than you will a suspension arm.

And it's "INSIGHT".

[_dV]

XL chassis really shouldn't handle worse than the stock. You might need to play with different suspension settings, diff fluids, camber, tires etc to tweak the handling to your liking. I'd suggest playing with shock spacers and springs first as thats the easiest. For example, if you watch my truck you can see its way too hard and on loose surface it makes it rather hard to control.

Wheelies, shouldn't be a prob. No probs with my build and that has a slipperential. Either not getting enough traction or slipper too loose, something like that.

The stock tires are rather crap, especially on loose surface. I just wish there was something in that size that had decent grip but didn't weigh too much. Not sure if i will stick with them on my build yet.

So far my truck seems to be a bit more ..graceful? in the air. I've only done a little jumping so far. Doesn't seem to get itself bent out of shape as easy and corrections can be made nps but maybe not quite as sharp as a stock length truck.

An alternative to XL axles would be to simply use offset wheels.

My truck still seems quite agile to drive. I know it's not the standard XL build but there should be some similarities. Best of luck getting your handling sorted, just dive in, change stuff and find out what works.

What were your shock settings in that vid dv?

[reno911]

I gotta say Freeze that truck is pretty stellar looking. I am sad to hear that it is not performing to your likings. I imagine that will take some tweaking. Even when I put a new truck together I still have to do some tweaking after the first few runs to get it dialed in. This is just the way it is.

As for tires I know it has been beaten dead, but Badlands are the best. They perform very well, even in places that you would not expect, such as a groomed track. They may not be of the aesthetic nature you like but they work.



Edit: Cough, cough....look down!

Originally Posted by reno911

As for tires I know it has been beaten dead, but Badlands are the best. They perform very well, even in places that you would not expect, such as a groomed track. They may not be of the aesthetic nature you like but they work.

Badlands are nice, but I like driving on concrete and badlands don't last long that way

Originally Posted by reno911

I gotta say Freeze that truck is pretty stellar looking. I am sad to hear that it is not performing to your likings. I imagine that will take some tweaking. Even when I put a new truck together I still have to do some tweaking after the first few runs to get it dialed in. This is just the way it is.

Yeah, your probably right, i've just been spending so much time AND money on building and moding this thing, I haven't been able to enjoy itfor whats its intended for. Fall is almost here in my area and soon it will be too cold to go drive at all. I hate it when time goes so fast.....

And look down where?

[lincpimp]

I would ditch the axle extenders and run a wheel with more offset, just casue axle extenders are no replacement for longer arms... The higher offset wheel will put more load on the bearings, but you will loose a little bit of width and likely gain some steering and agility back. Stock flux is pretty short/narrow, so it should be agile and turn well. Trade off is that the longer chassis should be more stable.

[Bondonutz]

+1; I decided on 1/2" offset wheels rather than the axle entenders for the same reason plus the weak point is whjere the pin goes thru the axle. Why create even more stress there IMO ?

[thzero]

You have that same weak point whether you use the axle extenders or 1/2" offset wheels.

We just need a better axle for these things. Would be great to have hubs that can support a 24mm bearing, then have 6mm axle so we could use the 24mm hubs from the 5B/5T.

Originally Posted by Bondonutz

+1; I decided on 1/2" offset wheels rather than the axle entenders for the same reason plus the weak point is whjere the pin goes thru the axle. Why create even more stress there IMO ?

[_dV]

Freeze: shock settings in the vid were
- 500 centistoke (50 wt) HPI oil
- stock piston
- single white spring (no short spring)
- tube but no other spacers

That was with the shock tower supports as well. They make a diff to how stiff settings feel.


Update: Went out for quick drive after work. Tried replacing the white springs with pink + the smallest spacer on top of the tube. Instantly much better, removed the small spacer, little better again. Less skatey on loose surface and less bouncey on bumps. Could still see that the dampening was too harsh. Will try 400 cst oil next time.

[Bondonutz]

NOT argueing but I dissagree, on the extended axles the pin is out further from the protection and support of the bearing. It'll have a chance of flexing more. That POS alum collar is useless.

I have ben able to make LST2 axles work in my Lightning Stadium Pro2, when I have time I'll bet I can make them work in the Savy also.