Off to see Avatar premier tonight...

[BrianG]

I finally went to see this movie last night, and was VERY impressed with it! It is probably my favorite movie ever.

[Finnster]

lol... glad you liked it Brian.

@ Linc sorta and whomever:

I don't want to be misunderstood in that every movie is/or tries to be existential, and that every little thing has some deep esoterical meaning. Michael Bay movies are about as deep as a Britney Spears autobiography, but with a few less train wrecks and explosions.

However, films are obviously an art form and some are more serious than others.
Its said that there are only 7 basic plots to all human story telling, and some explore the themes more than others. Also, there is a good level of craft going into the films, and sometimes it takes a bit of education to see the devices and intentions the directors are building on and what they are trying to do with them. I'll yammer on below.

Camerons are good IMO as they are a more substantial than just a std blow 'em up movie, but still have enough action to be fun, unlike some artsy fartsy borefest.

EG. Aliens (Ridley Scott did Alien, and his movies tend to have depth and meaning as well.)

On one level its a good action movie vs baddass aliens, with cyborgs, impalements, spaceships, and lots of guns and gore and stuff you can make into toys and sell to kids.
However, there is a lot of subtext in the movie. You see it, but its not always immediately obvious unless you know to look for it, and once you see it, you see alot of it.

On its deepest level, it a movie of hostile masculinity vs feminity, and all the rape fanatasy that goes with it.
The Aliens are giant peens. They have peen heads, with tiny fanged peens that shoot out of thier mouths to stab/impale and kill you. (ie violent rape) Not to mention they are dripping with goo that will also burn and kill you.


They have tiny babies that fly thru the air, wrap around your face and throat F you all so they can shoot their seed into your belly, so another tiny peen alien will be birthed by stabing thru your gut and again killing you.


Then there is Ripley, a human woman, who battles with the aliens. The director sets up a lot of female imagery around her char. There is a scene where she is soundly sleeping in the ship, locked in a small, bright, all white room, while its all quiet other than the soothing sound of the ship drumming like a heartbeat. Ie, its a womb. Nothing else happens in the scene, and no other point of it being in the film other than to build imagery. Lots of other scenes establishing the ship as maternal, as well as Ripley as a "mother" figure. You get the idea.

They have another scene where a male human cyborg char tries to strangle Ripley after his betrayal is revealed by jamming a porno mag down her throat. (he was thought to be human until then and was injured.) In another scene, a cyborg also secretly betrays the humans, and is eventually destroyed. His body is torn apart so that the inner fluids all spill out, which happens to be a sticky white fluid. Gee, what's the imagery? Human on the outside, a seeming ally, meanwhile a secret betrayer on the inside who happens to have jizz for blood. Righto. Message recieved.

Its been a while since I watched those movies, so some of the stuff is mixed between Alien and Aliens as best I remember. But you get the idea.
Point is, many things are done intentionally. From set design, chars, camera angles & cinematography to every scene. Stating the obvious yes, but its easy to forget while immersed in the film. Somethings are not very noticable or taken for granted until you ask why the director put them there.

Our focus might be in the foreground, but there are things in the background that are saying something. EG Blade Runner (another Ridley Scott film,) there are scenes where Harrison Ford is talking, the focus on him, but just behind him over his shoulder in the bg, there is a huge stuffed owl mounted on the wall with its talons out looking as if its coming down onto its prey. (sry, can't find a pic) Well the story is Ford is a detective hunting down and killing rogue cyborgs. Ie, he's a predator. He's solitary, works in the shadows to track his prey, and comes down on them with lethal efficiency. Not an accident the owl is mounted on the wall, not a coincidence the way the shot is framed. The foreground is off center to make space for the owl to be prominant in the bg. It's building the imagery of Ford's char within the film. (note that this does not mean every meaning and image is supposed to be highly esoteric, pondering the existence of man in the uni. Often it just has meaning with context of the film. Not everything/most things are supposed to be some Freudian headtrip.)

One other last one from Blade Runner, but you see it alot in films:

What is this? You kinda have to know the scene and movie to follow, but basically this is the villan of the film, the cyborg leader near the final death scene.
He's been wounded, and is bleeding from the head, maybe even the side, as well as his hands have been shot and otherwise impaled by Ford (see hole in hand in pic) and knows death is near. Regardless he is holding a dove and boldly faces martyrdom. What's the image here? An obvious Jesus figure.
Cyborg is a man created by another man (immaculate conception?), is rejected by man, and is persecuted. He is not supposed to be Jesus himself tho, but the imagery helps build the story/char. The cyborg finds his creator and kills him iirc. Ford is the one who finds and wounds him, and finally kills him. The cyborg collapses and falls, laying like a crucifix. Lots of other biblical imagery going on too, such as rain like a baptismal.

What all that imagery does then is to confound the story at the end and make it tragic. What starts off as a clear Detective as good guy/ Cyborg as evil murdering robot, by the end we are not so sure of which side is right, and it turns tragic. The cyborg's death is disturbing and not the satisfaction we were looking forward to in the beginning. Perspectives got challenged and turned around on the audience.
Its a good movie regardless if you are not aware of this subtext, and you still get the point really. However, all this artistic work serves to enhance and enrichen the movie, so it can be enjoyed on many levels. Part of the fun of a movie IMO is trying to see all this and understand what it means within the movie.

[rabosi]

Originally Posted by Finnster

........... Ford is the one who finds and wounds him, and finally kills him. The cyborg collapses and falls, laying like a crucifix. Lots of other biblical imagery going on too, such as rain like a baptismal.......

Cyborg actually saves Ford's life in the end. I believe Cyborg died because of preprogrammed life span not because of injury. (not to nitpick) ....but interesting analysis.

[BrianG]

Wow! You really like to dissect movies, don't you?

[Finnster]

Originally Posted by BrianG

Wow! You really like to dissect movies, don't you?

lol.. what can you say. I am very analytical and I can't not see it now I know these things are intentionally there.

I'm really not that bad tho. Not like I'm hanging out at the coffee bars arguing with stoned out art majors on whether the Navi'i's blue skin is a metaphor for man's inner struggle for social acceptance, as influenced by Earnest Bullshinski's 15th century poem about a dead parrot. ;)
They are blue because shit looks cool and goes well with all the other flourescent colors.

[lambchops]

Ive seen it twice now really enjoyed it, one of my top 5 ever! Will be interested to see how it transfers to the small screen if it still holds the same magic

[bruce750i]

Sure Finnster,
Sigourney Weaver was not bad in Alien, But now she's no reason to go see any movie.

Jesus Christ Finn, ya either enjoyed the movie or ya didn't, it doesn't have to turn into a scientific vs theological dissection

[BrianG]

lol. I watch/enjoy movies for the sake of escape from reality, not to analyze. At least that's what I try to do - sometimes the movies are so bad it's hard not to pick them apart. I was impressed at the "realistic" alien/world and how the CG blended so well with "reality". Usually, I look at the nuances of the CG to see how realistic it is, but with this movie, I got too caught up in the whole experience. There was just something viscerally appealing.

[shaunjohnson]

Originally Posted by BrianG

lol. I watch/enjoy movies for the sake of escape from reality, not to analyze. At least that's what I try to do - sometimes the movies are so bad it's hard not to pick them apart. I was impressed at the "realistic" alien/world and how the CG blended so well with "reality". Usually, I look at the nuances of the CG to see how realistic it is, but with this movie, I got too caught up in the whole experience. There was just something viscerally appealing.

ditto!!
but i wish they went with the producers icea to film in 30fps rather than the somewhat clunky 24fps. the idea was that we would be awed by the 3D-ness so worry about the "strobing"

[ANGRY-ALIEN]

I saw this article just now, thought you guys would be interested... "Some see racist theme in alien adventure 'Avatar' (AP)"

"Strange as it may seem for a film that pits greedy, immoral humans against noble denizens of a faraway moon, "Avatar" is being criticized by a small
but vocal group of people who allege it contains racist themes — the white hero once again saving the primitive natives."

Alien

Originally Posted by ANGRY-ALIEN

I saw this article just now, thought you guys would be interested... "Some see racist theme in alien adventure 'Avatar' (AP)"

"Strange as it may seem for a film that pits greedy, immoral humans against noble denizens of a faraway moon, "Avatar" is being criticized by a small
but vocal group of people who allege it contains racist themes — the white hero once again saving the primitive natives."

Alien

These are probably the the same narrowminded dumbasses who made this

[YOUTUBE]t5OJct6vFJg[/YOUTUBE]

[ANGRY-ALIEN]

... that's just wrong...

[shaunjohnson]

Originally Posted by Freezebyte

These are probably the the same narrowminded dumbasses who made this

i thought that was fecking funny!!!
the tree...not black? umm....LOL
the spider?

[Finnster]

Originally Posted by ANGRY-ALIEN

I saw this article just now, thought you guys would be interested... "Some see racist theme in alien adventure 'Avatar' (AP)"

"Strange as it may seem for a film that pits greedy, immoral humans against noble denizens of a faraway moon, "Avatar" is being criticized by a small
but vocal group of people who allege it contains racist themes — the white hero once again saving the primitive natives."

Alien

lol... who's to say the film wasn't racist to whites? The barbaric and warlike white imperialists come to destroy the peaceful and harmonious natives to feed their gluttony. The great white warrior has a trancedent experience, as taught to him by the beautiful native princess, and he turns his back on his wicked ways to overcome his weakness and become their greatest champion. [/sarcasm]

Maybe I can blog that all over the place and Yahoo can write a story about it. Its easy to misconstrue racial themes when they are looked at so simplemindedly. If you wanted to get all radical and hardcore, my sarcastic version is prolly closer to the truth then those dumbasses.
Is it a story told from a white perspective? Well yeah.
If it borrows from the story of the settlement of America by European settlers and war against the Indians, then you wouldn't tell it from an African or Asian perspective, as they were not around.