WTF is wrong with some people?

[BrianG]

Yeah, it may be a bit harsh, but I honestly think it is needed. As far as judging people: if it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, and quacks like a duck...it's a duck. I just call it like I see it. I just have a problem with all the freeloaders who think they are "entitled" to gov't help because they don't want to take responsibility for their actions/condition. Instead of being a temporary "helping hand" in a time of need, gov't aid becomes a way of life. Why work when I can get everything for free? It just seems that integrity and self-respect is becoming more and more rare. Yeah, maybe a lot of us don't need the "sterilization plan", but we are responsible adults who assume responsibility for our actions and don't want to live on someone else's dime. But applying the same policy for everyone eliminates any claim of discrimination because of age, sex, religion, ethnicity, income, etc - everyone is treated fairly. So, instead of the gov' just giving out handouts to any sob story, they should make the criteria more strict and also provide a clear and definite timeline. None of this "my pinky hurts so I can't work" or "I'll just keep popping out kids to get benefits" bullshit.

As far as that useless piece of garbage in the article is concerned, she needs to stop spreading her legs to any guy who feels like getting his wiener wet and start making the right decisions. If not for her, then for her kids' sake.

[PBO]

http://www.smh.com.au/world/octomums...0105-lrlw.html

Convenient timing...

http://www.amazon.com/America-Alone-...2665196&sr=1-1

This is along the lines of the discussion of the effects of the population myth for those of you interested. Mark Steyn is a conservative, but this book does a good job at looking mathematically at the effects of a declining population rates in developed countries and the effects on the culture on countries and regions.

I am sure Neil can chime in on some of the problems arising in the UK from "peoples" moving there and not embracing the UK as there new home country.

[jnev]

While we're on this topic, here is an interesting video from youtube. It doesn't really start until 40 seconds, but the beginning may be interesting to read. Just something else to discuss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

EDIT: I also want to point out that I don't agree or disagree with the message. I simply posted it because I though it would be interesting for discussion.

Yeah that is the gist of Steyn's book. He also looks at Japan, China, and Russia. Japan is like Spain and Greece, they just aren't having kids. China has way to many men and too few women, so they too will experience a decline in population. And well Russia is just plain sad. The men are dying very young by our standards in the West and the abortion rate is through the roof. They have little hope for a better future.

It is weird, but in the life times of most people on this board we could see multiple cultures just disappear.

For those of you that think 19 kids is ridiculous, you have no view of history. And I find it your attitudes offensive, my grandmother was one of 16 kids that survived, 18 total. They lived and were born long before anyone ever thought of a social program in the U.S. They were farmers in the mountains of Virginia and there family was the norm for lots of people in many areas of the U.S. People were from big families, they worked the land and they worked together.

Originally Posted by 76Bentley

For those of you that think 19 kids is ridiculous, you have no view of history. And I find it your attitudes offensive, my grandmother was one of 16 kids that survived, 18 total. They lived and were born long before anyone ever thought of a social program in the U.S. They were farmers in the mountains of Virginia and there family was the norm for lots of people in many areas of the U.S. People were from big families, they worked the land and they worked together.

May I remind you that things where ALOT different on the planet 150 years ago?

[PBO]

Originally Posted by 76Bentley

For those of you that think 19 kids is ridiculous, you have no view of history. And I find it your attitudes offensive, my grandmother was one of 16 kids that survived, 18 total. They lived and were born long before anyone ever thought of a social program in the U.S. They were farmers in the mountains of Virginia and there family was the norm for lots of people in many areas of the U.S. People were from big families, they worked the land and they worked together.

and all the kids were comparatively poorly educated and they worked the land from a young age and suffered diseases like polio & small pox. Lets go back to those times...

I'm comparing apples & apples

[pinkpanda3310]

Other places might be feeling the pinch for elbow room but I love my three children.

I can't stand freeloaders much less those that are dumping there kids on grandma and grandpa.

I heard a saying once that has stuck- The rise of support groups is linked to the lack of Grandma's living at home. It is not the be and end all but an indication of the break down of the family unit leading to troubles.

Originally Posted by PBO

and all the kids were comparatively poorly educated and they worked the land from a young age and suffered diseases like polio & small pox. Lets go back to those times...

I'm comparing apples & apples

To me though you are not comparing apples to apples, you are making assumptions and value judgments about people from that time and you are confusing subjects. The discussion that you chimed in on was about the life style and large families.

I started out the discussion with the purpose of defending the Duggar's. As I mentioned before they are totally self reliant and reminiscent of a different time. When people had large close families, where they worked hard to impart the values that they believed in, and were finacially more sound than lots if not most of the people in our society now.

In a previous post I talk with excitement about the future, I in no means want to give up the progress on disease and ailments as you imply. That would be ridiculous.

You are right, my grandmother did not have a college education, but she and her siblings made sure they got the most out of what was offered to them vs the little bastards today that have no desire to learn. My local high school had a 51% graduation rate......what the hell?!?! just built a 50+million dollar high school, like that will solve the problem.

My grandmother worked as a bookkeeper and did very well at it, she worked until the day she was admitted to the hospital where she passed 2 weeks later at 94 years old.

I just wanted people in the discussion to see the difference between the Duggars and the woman in the story Freeze posted.

[JERRY2KONE]

We have eight kids and we are managing just fine. Sure things can get kind of tough, and if you do not plan properly or save for a rainy day as the saying goes, then you will end up sucking off of the system at some point. We have 5 kids grown and out who all pay their own way through school right now. We have 3 more here at home with us who are learning how to take responsibility for themselves. 10, 13, & 14 now and they clean their own rooms, do their own laundry, wash their own dishes as they use them, go to school, and even find work to make some pocket money for themselves. It is all in the way you teach them and the example you set for them. Self esteem is something that you have to help them develop so they can be competitive in society.

I do kind of agree about having some kind of system in place that is deemed to make sure that you are able to care for and pay for a child before you are allowed to breed. If you are expecting the Gov to pay your childs way because you are not able to, then surely that should not be allowed to happen. I believe that BrianG's idea is on teh right track.

[PBO]

Originally Posted by 76Bentley

you are making assumptions and value judgments about people from that time and you are confusing subjects. The discussion that you chimed in on was about the life style and large families.

Nope, you've made that assumption, I made no reference to "people from that time"...go back & read my post that you were so offended by

When people had large close families, (they) were finacially more sound than lots if not most of the people in our society now.

I'm certain lack of contraception, infant mortality, lack of financial security or a hundred other issues had nothing to do with it...

Not sure why you're so upset by my opinion but I think you're contriving simple answers out of complex issues (of your own making) by applying rose coloured nostalgia to them

Originally Posted by PBO

Nope, you've made that assumption, I made no reference to "people from that time"...go back & read my post that you were so offended by



I'm certain lack of contraception, infant mortality, lack of financial security or a hundred other issues had nothing to do with it...

Not sure why you're so upset by my opinion but I think you're contriving simple answers out of complex issues (of your own making) by applying rose coloured nostalgia to them

I read your post carefully, don't need to go back. You were the one who commented on the general lack of education and medical advancements then, which I have answered.

The issues you list above with contraception, infant mortality......are as big a concern today as they were back then.


And no I don't have rose colored glasses, I am basing my opinion of fact and study of the US economy. The over use of credit is a big problem, our own government doesn't get it. Where as people from my grandparents generation that went through the Great Depression did not use it. They were savers and it was very unusual for them to borrow any money save except for a car or home. Further with out all of the social programs that people are sucking from today families were stronger, they were close knit and more self reliant.

[JERRY2KONE]

I do reject the premise that the planet is in trouble, best example to me is look are Chernobyl. When that sucker melted down they said it would be a llllloooooonnnnnggggg time before it would return to normal....but in just what 25 years nature has reclaimed it.

Where did you hear this from? They have sealed the reactor in concrete and it will remain that way for a very long time, because the radio activity is still high enough to kill humans. The area around the reactor has been cleared for something like 20 miles, and no one goes near it.

http://www.universityofcalifornia.ed.../article/21161

Here is an article from UC Santa Barbara about oil just seeping out of the ocean floor.
This pocket is the equivalent of multiple Exxon Valdez spills.

So would this make the Earth a threat to it self?