14s Brushless Savage

[Soro]

Very nice project

Hope to see it running soon

[mckrill]

Well, I had free hands on the electronics, motor and ESC - not the paint and shassie...

[suicideneil]

Got any pictures or a thread/ link for the bike project ( cant view the videos at work )?

[mckrill]

You can find some more information here http://www.sertracing.se/

This is the official homepage, but there is not so many pictures and details yet. I am not allowed to disclose certain information yet, but in a few weeks I can post images etc.

On the motors, the neus are lighter, more torque per amp, higher efficiency and more power out

If that motor needs radiators it is such a poor choice you shouldnt use it.

[mckrill]

There's a few opinions on that, for sure.. Please feel free to buy a bunch of each and test

[nuz69]

Lehners are efficient monster lol ^^ ~93% the neus are ~90%. Contrary to cheap motor, the presence of a heat sink does not mean that the efficiency is bad... Why neu do smooth can ?? To put water cooled heat sink, exactly like the lehner...

Water cooling vs air or Neu v Lehner?

Re the motors have you seen dyno charts - not just calculator graphs?
Lehner efficiency is OK, as are Hackers, which are same gen technology but

Neu
* make motors for planes - most use smooth cans - I know how Neus were introduced to marine racing I did it... when I raised their performnce on RRR many years ago.
* uses finer laminations and 4 pole is easier than 2 pole on ESC's and the designs 4 years old the 2280s date from the mid 90's
* have better peak efficiency (claims means nothing - dyno charts tell the real story) and also much better efficiency at low amps and very high amps ie a wider band of high efficincy - this is very important for cars which spend most time at very low amps - less than 50 amps but spike into the 150A's under acceleration and high loads
* produce more torque per amp - in practice this usually means they do more with less or they give harder acceleration or better runtime
* are lighter for the same power and torque - means better p:w ratios and handling

In a car the avergae amp draw is so low a motor with enough torque shouldnt require additional cooling. IMO this mean water cooling is a complicated and redundant.

However given that Lehner;s specs will be running out of it efficiency band most of the time due to the high iron losses at low power and will run hot with air cooling.

With electric bigger isnt better. The smallest possible motor with sufficient torque and the correct efficiency point is the way to go. Electric motors are like the rods and crank - they dont make power they just covert it and waste it to varying degrees. Only batteries make power.

Water cooling is used on race boats but the power throughput is 150-190 amps average... or about 5 times that of a car.

[Ryu James]

Originally Posted by Andrewg

Water cooling vs air or Neu v Lehner?

Re the motors have you seen dyno charts - not just calculator graphs?
Lehner efficiency is OK, as are Hackers, which are same gen technology but

Neu
* make motors for planes - most use smooth cans - I know how Neus were introduced to marine racing I did it... when I raised their performnce on RRR many years ago.
* uses finer laminations and 4 pole is easier than 2 pole on ESC's and the designs 4 years old the 2280s date from the mid 90's
* have better peak efficiency (claims means nothing - dyno charts tell the real story) and also much better efficiency at low amps and very high amps ie a wider band of high efficincy - this is very important for cars which spend most time at very low amps - less than 50 amps but spike into the 150A's under acceleration and high loads
* produce more torque per amp - in practice this usually means they do more with less or they give harder acceleration or better runtime
* are lighter for the same power and torque - means better p:w ratios and handling

In a car the avergae amp draw is so low a motor with enough torque shouldnt require additional cooling. IMO this mean water cooling is a complicated and redundant.

However given that Lehner;s specs will be running out of it efficiency band most of the time due to the high iron losses at low power and will run hot with air cooling.

With electric bigger isnt better. The smallest possible motor with sufficient torque and the correct efficiency point is the way to go. Electric motors are like the rods and crank - they dont make power they just covert it and waste it to varying degrees. Only batteries make power.

Water cooling is used on race boats but the power throughput is 150-190 amps average... or about 5 times that of a car.

correct me if i am wrong, but i believe mckrill is doing the water cooling not out of necessity but for more the experience of doing something different, cool, and of scale realism.

as for the lehners running hot at low power, that is true. i bought a lehner 2250 to run in a 1/8 truggy. i knew it was way over powered so i expected that truggy to fly. well, i was disappointed. the temps were high which i could not figure out. then someone here on the forum bought the motor from me and explained i had it in too small of a car. he put it in a baja conversion and it ran cool as ever.

but here is something interesting. i love lehners, neus, and hackers. all are great motors if you ask me. i just built a slash 4x4 and put in a 1512 1y 2700kv on 3s. temps were pretty good. mostly in the 130 range but got up to 150 at one point. which is hotter than i like. so i put in a 1973kv b50xl hacker just to test. now temps are in the 105 to 110 range and the truck seems faster, or at least as fast. the same exact thing happened when i switched from 2200kv neu to 1973kv c50xl in my losi 8ight last year. lower temps, lower kv, but faster car. that has just been my experience.

[Nard Cox]

Originally Posted by Andrewg

(claims means nothing - dyno charts tell the real story)

Just curious, do you have any dyna charts to back up the story? I would be interested in seeing those.

[mckrill]

Well, as I said, there are a few opinions about the performance, but what remains is what I can fit into the car and what I can get my hands on with easy. All this has been discussed in the thread before - just like the reason for why I'd like to experiment with radiators and pumps.

If I wanted it to run smooth, cool and last forever I could have used any of my other 8 cars..

Please feel free to start one of those everlasting threads on witch motors are the best.

[mckrill]

Ryu James - I think you observation is similar to mine with other bl-setups.

[snellemin]

Originally Posted by mckrill

Ryu James - I think you observation is similar to mine with other bl-setups.

I have same the experience with my cars as well. Lehner did advertise that their Basic series motors didn't like partial loading.

Recent temperature observation in CRT.5

With the 4 pole Plettenberg, the temps are higher than with the XL3100 Basic Lehner. Lehner is faster than the Plettenberg in the CRT.5.

I take the same Plettenberg and stick it in my GTP and it's a beast. I swap out the Plettenberg with a C50L Hacker and speed is insane.

[Ryu James]

so now that....ahem.... almost ran away with the thread lets get back to what this thread is about: mckrill building a sick, unique truck and the rest of us supporting it and having a blast watching your progress. keep us posted mckrill and latest updates.

Hey good luck with it - it will be a show piece of you building skills.
However, I dont use opinion; logged data, dyno tests and spread sheets and occassionally a motor formulae calculator. been doing this too long to be bothered guessing any more.