Osama Bin Laden Dead

[fastbaja5b]

Originally Posted by PBO

I've been on this planet for a few years now & if there's one thing I've learned; situations like this don't fade away peacefully, they usually erupt like a volcano. Wars aren't quick things...

This issue seems to enrage Americans so easily (not you personally) which makes it hard to discuss objectively, so I'm not looking to go down that road, just to make a point or two

The war in Iraq was promised to be a quick & easy victory - it wasn't. The Vietnam & Korean wars were meant to be quick & easy - they weren't. The war on terror - same. I admire anybody who is optimistic but I believe the weight of history indicates that both the 'war' is far from over & that power vacuums usually signify further unrest

Considering that a reasonable person might ask "is the trophy killing of OBL worth what may follow?"

Most people in this world aren't intelligent enough to think this rationally however, the sheep mentality will kick in (It's started with those incessant "USA USA" chants), Obama's popularity was falling, to the point that Donald Trump thought he'd have a crack, now Obama is the PM who captured Bin Laden, recession or not, the American public will absolutely love him now.

[Finnster]

Originally Posted by PBO

I've been on this planet for a few years now & if there's one thing I've learned; situations like this don't fade away peacefully, they usually erupt like a volcano. Wars aren't quick things...

This issue seems to enrage Americans so easily (not you personally) which makes it hard to discuss objectively, so I'm not looking to go down that road, just to make a point or two

The war in Iraq was promised to be a quick & easy victory - it wasn't. The Vietnam & Korean wars were meant to be quick & easy - they weren't. The war on terror - same. I admire anybody who is optimistic but I believe the weight of history indicates that both the 'war' is far from over & that power vacuums usually signify further unrest

Considering that a reasonable person might ask "is the trophy killing of OBL worth what may follow?"

You are very right, wars and violence don't end things, and certainly not quickly. However I do think this was a pivotal point, and if the jihadi's were going to really do something, they would have already done it in the last decade. Not to mention the fact they are bumbling idiots. Let's face it, since 911, we've had a guy light his shoe on fire, and guy light his underwear and cock on fire, and a guy setting up a truck bomb w/ fairly inflammable propane cylinders, meanwhile leaving the keys to the getaway car locked inside. Not quite the deadly evil masterminds they are crackedup to be. Not to take them lightly, but not piss my pants about it either. Our guys are better and on vigil. They are doing a great job.

I think it is important to see this in context of the sweeping changes and calls for freedom in the ME. The situation is chaotic, unpredictable and a little unsettling, but the old order was unstable and poisonous anyway and there is a real possibility for change for everyone's benefit. The removal of this force of murder, hatred and evil can only be a long term good imo. The ME will take decades and longer to reform, and there are still many bigger roadblocks, but I sincerely wish the trend to improve.


@josh; I'm sure they will release them soon. Its the proof that will be demanded. Wonder what its going to take to clean him up a bit..but not too clean ya know.. ;) I'll be waiting too

[PBO]

Originally Posted by fastbaja5b

Most people in this world are sheep, Obama's popularity was falling, recession or not, the American public will absolutely love him now.

A quick edit

Agreed

Originally Posted by Finnster

I think it is important to see this in context of the sweeping changes and calls for freedom in the ME. The situation is chaotic, unpredictable and a little unsettling, but the old order was unstable and poisonous anyway and there is a real possibility for change for everyone's benefit. The removal of this force of murder, hatred and evil can only be a long term good imo. The ME will take decades and longer to reform, and there are still many bigger roadblocks, but I sincerely wish the trend to improve.

Let's hope you're right

[JERRY2KONE]

The significants of how long any of these wars has lasted when you look at the actual time line are mere blips on the radar screen for the existance of this planet. The religious wars of history used to last hundreds of years. The wars of today themselves were very short lived. The only part of any of these conflicts that lived on for many years is the security follow ups that eventually lead to peace due to changes in their own Gov's.

Look at the war with Japan in comparison. It was truly an awful encounter between Japan & the USA 60-70 years ago, and now we celebrate an alliance and friendship with Japan that is a very strong relationship. We went to the aid of South Korea to battle the North for many years, but when you look at this from a historical view it was a short lived war as well, that ended within a few years. The only real battle going on there now is the tirnatic control of their leader who keeps the entire nation of North Korea in the dark brainwashed to believe that everyone outside of the borders of the north are evil. At some point the people of North Korea will finally begin to see what is really going on and this too will end.

The war in Iraq was actually a very quick encounter that lasted a few years, but it will be the people of Iraq that will be able to open their eyes without fear and live a life of freedom. Libya is just another example of the same resolve. Eventually Gadaphi will die just like all the rest, and the people of that country will live in relief. War is ugly and always has been, but it is also necessary because of the beliefs of any nation, but more so the sad way that some leaders force their views and beliefs on its people. Morons like Gadaphi gather enough loyal followers who in most cases have very little to live for as human beings and would follow a dog if he could provide food and shelter for them. These idiots take over a region and call it their own, terrorizing the local inhabitants with fear and death. None of these fools last for very long in these times, and eventually the people will regain control.

I honestly believe that at some point in the history of the planet North Korea will resolve its own problems and open its borders just like everyone else has. Whether I will see this in my lifetime who knows, but eventually it will happen. Look at East & West Germany. Look at Russia. Look at North & South Vietnam. Some of us grew up watching these wars on the news with family members who died in each of these conflicts. Now we share vacations with these places. It has been one of the blessings in my life to be able to do things that we never believed would happen in our lifetimes. I have been to countries around the globe that used to be taboo just because of their local religions or Gov controls. I have walked on The Great Wall of China. I have walked the streets of Japan. I plan to visit Russia, Vietnam, and as many other countries as I am able during my life. Some of those places were enemies of our country for many years, but now are friends or allies of our nation. This too will be true of many other countries that are now not so fond of the USA.

[Dafni]

smoke and mirrors!

[josh9mille]

I just heard that we were handling his body in accordance with Islamic tradition and already burried his body at sea. Why in the hell were we even concerned about how his body was treated?

Originally Posted by josh9mille

I kinda wish we could have captured him alive, death is too easy of a punishment for a POS like him. It would have been great if we could have tortured the hell out of him, but make sure he doesnt die just so we could torture him over and over again untill he finally dies of natural causes.

I am going to sound like a complete sicko here but I don't really care. I would love to have gone at his skin with a vegetable peeler and watch the bastard squirm to his slow and agonizing death. Sh!t, he would do a lot worse to me if he ever had the chance and sure he has done a lot worse to others. I know two wrongs don't make it right but he got out way too easy. They said he copped a bullet in his head. I hope the bastard didn't off him self.

Originally Posted by PBO

Considering that a reasonable person might ask "is the trophy killing of OBL worth what may follow?"

Not sure if it's worth it or not but I don't think that a scumbag like him deserves to die of old age. I for one am happy that he is dead. He took way too many lives just because they didn't believe what he did. There will be retaliations mark my word but there also would have been more acts of terror dished out by him if he had lived too. Problem is he is just one man (evil one at that) but the idea is what is going to be a lot harder to kill. Us against them. Christianity and Islam will never exist in peace together unless they recognize (don't have to believe) and respect each others religions. FAT chance of that happening any time soon or even in my lifetime. That is why it's either us or them and will stay like that till one side wipes the other out.

Originally Posted by josh9mille

I just heard that we were handling his body in accordance with Islamic tradition and already burried his body at sea. Why in the hell were we even concerned about how his body was treated?

You know why mate? Because we are better then them. They would have strung our bodies up in the street to rot. At least we have the decency to respect their beliefs. Don't be angry about it.

[JERRY2KONE]

OBL was a coward hiding behind the scenes sending young kids out to commit suicide by loading them up with explosives to kill anyone who happens to be near by. All of this while brainwashing them to believe that there was some kind of big party waiting for them on the other side. What a crock of crapp that is. He was a piece of crapp who deserved to die any way possible just to get him off this planet. Over the next day or so he will end up where he belongs. A piece of shark $hiate floating to the bottom of the Ocean. A fine way to see him off to his virgin party.

[BrianG]

Originally Posted by JERRY2KONE

OBL is now with his 100 virgins wherever that might be thought to be.

I wonder if their "bible" (or whatever it is called) specifies female virgins? It would be fitting if he was met with 100 eager, large, and well-endowed male virgins... and him on the receiving end!

Originally Posted by josh9mille

I kinda wish we could have captured him alive, death is too easy of a punishment for a POS like him. It would have been great if we could have tortured the hell out of him, but make sure he doesnt die just so we could torture him over and over again untill he finally dies of natural causes.

Can't do that; it's "inhumane". All the bible-thumpers and bleeding heart liberals would never let that happen. Personally, I agree; let the punishment fit the crime; an eye for an eye if you will.

[BP-Revo]

I would have let him burn to death, as many of the people in the WTC did...

Originally Posted by josh9mille

I just heard that we were handling his body in accordance with Islamic tradition and already burried his body at sea. Why in the hell were we even concerned about how his body was treated?

This was done to not piss off the rest of the Islamic world and to hopefully minimize any retaliatory strikes and what not.

Burying him out at sea was to prevent anyone from creating a shrine for him (if they somehow supported him).

[bruce750i]

This thread is worthless without pics. WTF TMZ!

[PBO]

Originally Posted by BIG-block

Not sure if it's worth it or not but I don't think that a scumbag like him deserves to die of old age

In many respects OBL was given what he wanted; he was supposed to die mid-Jihad, from an infidel bullet. He probably wished & hoped to be martyred...he will arguably be more powerful now

In many respects taking him through a legal process would have taken years but it would have also hobbled his persona & it would have deprived him of the glory he was given

The reports he was using human shields makes no sense in the context of his belief system & it really does look more & more like a grubby PR stunt by Obama to remain in office for another term. Obama, given his background would understand only to well that justice hasn't been served - but Obama has been!

[suicideneil]

[Finnster]

Originally Posted by PBO

In many respects OBL was given what he wanted; he was supposed to die mid-Jihad, from an infidel bullet. He probably wished & hoped to be martyred...he will arguably be more powerful now

In many respects taking him through a legal process would have taken years but it would have also hobbled his persona & it would have deprived him of the glory he was given

The reports he was using human shields makes no sense in the context of his belief system & it really does look more & more like a grubby PR stunt by Obama to remain in office for another term. Obama, given his background would understand only to well that justice hasn't been served - but Obama has been!

I'm sorry, but I think this is a terrible misreading of American politics.

As far as a trial is concerned, there has been quite a bit of debate what to do here with all these captured people we have rotting in Gitmo. Obama had wanted to bring them back for trials and prison and shut Gitmo down. That didn't happen after lots of push back, as well as a lot of fear from people in cities hosting the trials that they would be terrorist targets. That was more 2-bit detainees like drivers and messengers, let alone the fear holding Bin Laden would inspire. We already got to watch the circus Saddam's trial and exectution was, and that was Iraq where they don't have endless appeal processes that go on for 20 yrs.

So what else? Hold some mock military trial in a secret location? Don't see how much more credible that was.
Not to mention, the considerable effort by his critics to paint Obama as weak and sympathizing to terrorists (the whole "read them their [arrest] rights while on the battlefield" bit.) Why take all this risk in capture then to incite a circus @ home?

On that theme, that this was a PR stunt just meant to boost poll #'s... there is a line between cynicism and absurdity, and this goes right over. Why now, why not in Oct right before his party got killed in the polls and lost considerable control in the Legislature and changed the polit. agenda going on? Why not wait closer to the Pres elections in 2012? This will be an old story by then, and no canidates have even officially declared.

Despite what sense you may get listening to the noise on the internet made form a very vocal minority, Obama still has considerable support @ home, despite all the messes we've been thru. All the potential canidates from the opposition are weak to the point of laughter, and have not been able to develop a coherent criticism of him other than to resort to half-baked conspiracy theories that he's some anti-white, kooky-Christian black supremecist, secret muslim facist, communist, socialist from Kendonesia rasied in madrassas in Indonesia steeped in anti-western colonial fervor of the Mau Mau Revolution on a secret mission hatched 50 years ago to usher in a Musilm Caliphate across Europe and America so he could have tea with terrorists.
IOW, one of these nutcases actually has to beat him.

Meanwhile, the political capital the opposition has gained in the last election is being spent passing insanely unpopular budget proposals (and little else) based on fantasy numbers and unrealistic assumptions that would do little to actually reduce our immense budget decifits or motivate job creation, but would strip the future* elderly of medical care (*those 55 and under) by privatising one of the most popular govt programs to give more tax cuts to the already unpopular wealthy. The opposition ran & won in 2010 slamming Obama for tampering and cutting Medicare, and the elderly are the most active voters...

IE... he doesn't need this.
However, most of the political risk was to the downside. Members of the President's democratic party have been succesfully blasted since 1980 and Jimmy Carter (Dem) for being being weak on Defense after the failed Iranian Hostage Rescue in 1979. Most Dems since have had to over-compensate on Defense to counter, else go down in flaming electoral defeat. (See Dukakis in '88, and Kerry in '04, and to an extent Gore in '00. (all 3 served in the military too fyi) ) Particular aggressive attempts have been made to compare Obama to Carter. Had this mission got fraked up, in a million ways it could have, Obama would have solidified this narritive and put his re-election in serious doubt, as well as burdened every other Democrat with this failure for several more decades to come.

Say what you will about the silly U-S-A chants and the wisdom of "martyring" of Osama (like he wasn't already), but the arguement it was a clever short-term popularity stunt can't be made by serious people.

[PBO]

Yeah, I should know politicians would never do anything within their means to grab votes or risk political suicide. Guess I'm not a serious person - oh well back to absurdity I go

OBL was still handed his best case outcome on a platter, without any serious attempt to follow international law. U-S-A! U-S-A!