HV-Maxx 4.5 or MM and 9xl?

[Serum]

still, the high KV (and the high temperatures) keep me from buying one.

With better cells the 8XL/mm controller combo IS faster, no way around it. again; the power a setup can deliver depends on the quality of the batteries; If the batteries are limiting the setups power both will deliver the same power.

That's my point.

A 4S powered monster can do 50mph, try that with your hvmaxx.

[suicideneil]

Hey Serum, you reckon the 6.5 motor (3100kv) would be a good improvement over the original 4400kv motor? Im thinking on good quality 7 cells packs (16.8v), it would have more speed and torque, and run cooler thanks to the new sintered rotor..... What do you reckon, from a hyperthectical view point?

A new 6.5 motor only cost £60 /$120 ish from tower (£100 in the UK, geh?), so it might be worth trying- cant be any worse/slower/weaker/hotter.....

[ClodMaxx]

a new rotor is only $35, and would be cheaper than the motor kit. when the 6.5 came out last summer, i had just purchased my 4400 system and called novak to see if they recommended the 6.5 motor, or just install the new rotor. they said the only things new were the rotor and the ribbed endbells to control heat, but that the endbells didn't really dissapate all that much. they recommended just installing the new rotor. it's pretty easy to install too, just make sure you grip it with pliers - hard - and slowly insert it. the magnetic pull is super strong, and could damage the sensor at the back of the can if it slips.

the sintered rotor does cut heat a lot, and the braking power is immense compared to the 4400. i didn't really notice much of speed boost though.

[suicideneil]

Oh and #12, how much does your maxx weigh & gearing? (I ask everyone that these days...)

[suicideneil]

Originally Posted by ClodMaxx

a new rotor is only $35, and would be cheaper than the motor kit. when the 6.5 came out last summer, i had just purchased my 4400 system and called novak to see if they recommended the 6.5 motor, or just install the new rotor. they said the only things new were the rotor and the ribbed endbells to control heat, but that the endbells didn't really dissapate all that much. they recommended just installing the new rotor. it's pretty easy to install too, just make sure you grip it with pliers - hard - and slowly insert it. the magnetic pull is super strong, and could damage the sensor at the back of the can if it slips.

the sintered rotor does cut heat a lot, and the braking power is immense compared to the 4400. i didn't really notice much of speed boost though.

Yeah, the rotor on its own would be alot cheaper to buy, but Im thinking about the KV ratings.

The old HV4400 is 4400kv, the 6.5 motor is 3100kv, and the 4.5 motor is 4800kv. With more turns and a lower kv the 6.5 should have better torque and run cooler than the original motor, even on 14cells ( I have seen a few videos of the 6.5 in revos and I like what I see):024: :cool:

Originally Posted by suicideneil

Oh and #12, how much does your maxx weigh & gearing? (I ask everyone that these days...)

10lbs 4oz 13 pinion 72 spur

[suicideneil]

Originally Posted by #12

10lbs 4oz 13 pinion 72 spur

Cheers dude. Got any pics / videos anywhere? I only have the one vid of my batteries exploding due to poor gearing selection, but when I had the Hv4400 in my TXT-1 with Emaxx tranny, wow, didnt it shift!.... Its a very under rated system I reckon.

[SpEEdyBL]

This is a very interesting thread. It has always puzzled me how novak motors have received so much bad rap. Here's what I've collected ever since people started using brushless motors in bigger vehicles. First there were the feigaos. People started out using the 8l and 9l winds, which from what I've heard, have had way too many overheating issues. Meanwhile, the HV4400 was out and it seemed to receive a lot of criticism from people who didn't didn't even own them. My guess is that they were referring to novak motors in general since the ss5800 had its issues causing the widespread assumption that sensored was inferior technology... etc. Also, the fact that both the motor and esc had a thermal shutdown made it seem like novak systems were overheating more than they actually were. Now, while more and more people began to use 8l, 9l and 10l motors, the complaints of overheating began to show through. The explaination for this was too much kv, and thus the overall trend was leaning to the bigger, low kv XL motors, where 30k-35k rpm is now the norm. Even so, the xl motors still have heating issues.

Fairly recently, novak replaced the rotors in all of their motors with sintered rotors. After that, all complaints about novak products seemed to have disappeared almost completely. You don't hear about many hv maxxs on the forums, but they are out there because every lhs has them.

Psychologically, the raw look of the feigao motors and the fact that they are sensorless give a limitless impression. That could be another reason why the feigao motors receive a lot of loyalty. In summery, I think the HV4.5 deserves more credit than it gets. Nobody has proven it to be a "weaker motor" or have "too high kv" for the job. Sure it has has a smaller rotor, but what really matters is how well it can dissipate heat and how efficient it is. If you look inside a feigao motor, its hard to see how it could be more efficient than a novak motor. The feigao motors are basically bundles of wire held together by epoxy while the novak can holds its wire neatly in place with a nice steel stator stack. In fact, when I opened up my feigao 380 12s, looking through the front, the rear bearing wasn't even centered in relation the coils. I've had three feigao motors and a novak ss5800, and the novak after all, ended up being my favorite. Other than some of the early issues that this motor has had, I haven't had any other problems. All my feigao motors have 1. fell apart, 2. overheated, and 3. didn't fit properly in my vehicle. Sure they were more powerful than the novak, but there really wasn't a gear ratio for them that didn't cause heat. The novak would run stone cold on any of the lower pinion gears and only overheated when the pinion gear reached a certain point.

Now, I am about to switch to a 1/8 buggy and I am seriously considering running a novak motor with it. The esc is a totally different matter, but if the mamba max, which I have, can handle the 8xl, why can't it handle the hv4.5, especially if castle is releasing software to handle the novak motors? Mamba Max + HV Maxx: That would be the ultimate, lightweight, affordable setup.

[BrianG]

I think some of the "pad rap" Novak gets is due to the high kv motors they use and they seem to be sensitive to gearing more than other motors, especially XL that has the extra torque which makes it more forgiving. Most now go with a motor with a kv of ~2000 or under and use voltage to get the 35k rpm sweet spot. For a given power, it's more efficient (fewer losses due to high amperage) to use higher voltage and less current than vice versa.

And as far as efficiency is concerned, you really outta check out a Neu motor. There IS definitely a reason for the cost difference! Of course, can't currently use them with a MM very well.

[suicideneil]

MM & novak BL, now there's an idea. I think the Velineon setup would be perfect in that respect- if they release a 5/6s version. It would be able to handle very high current/mid voltage motors like the HV range with the sensors plugged in- zero cogging & excellent low speed driveablity. Yet at the same time you could plug in a big ass sensorless like a Feigao XL or Neu maybe, and use that setup to power your 1/8 buggy to warp speed with a higher voltage.... things are definately looking up whichever way you look at it.

[Serum]

@speedy; did you ever ran/had an XL motor?

The novak hv's are rather weak; they compensate it with a higher RPM, but this will result in more heat and the controller needs to work harder as well. (higher losses)

on the novak; the magnet is too small to deliver a 1800w burst like an XL can do; not to mention the torque difference with both motors.

I'm not saying they are bad, but they just don't have got the balls of an XL motor; Period.

I just measured my 7XL and 9XL, and the bearing is perfect centered. What did you used to measure yours and how did you do it?

Mamba Max + HV Maxx

that would work at this point? the hvmaxx is a two pole motor? the problem is with neu motors. it works without the sensor ofcourse, but the weak part of the hvmaxx setup isn't the controller. Griffinru used a 7XL on his novak controller, and it had more power and torque than the original motor. (he used the hvmaxx motor as a sensor)

A buggy has got a way too low gearing ratio for a hvmaxx; the kv is simple too high.

[suicideneil]

Originally Posted by Serum

Griffinru used a 7XL on his novak controller, and it had more power and torque than the original motor. (he used the hvmaxx motor as a sensor)

Linky? How exactly did he have that setup- sounds rather interesting, to say the least. I wander if the HvMaxx esc could handle a higher voltage if the bec was disabled & a ubec employed?....:024:

[Serum]

http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2446

[suicideneil]

Cheers dude.

Yes but later he got the sensored xl motor