8ight T conversion

[rchippie]

I'm just starting to doubt what I thought I knew. LOL


Thats what BRIAN & RENE are for LOL :005: .

OK guys. S. Neu had offered to let me get a different wind motor, so I emailed him and let him know that I'd take the 1512/2.5d.

I got a package in today. I was a bit excited, when I opened it up. Guess what was in there. The same motor that I sent them. So much for the offer. I guess something in the lines of communitcation got crossed someplace.

Oh well. After over a month of waiting around for Quark and Neu, I still may not have a track worthy truck. I'll throw the 1.5Y in and gear up and see what happens.

This may be the time to throw in the towel.

For those of you that are looking at the 1512 1.5Y for a truggy, I can't say anything except that you will be disappointed if my experience with this motor is going to be typical.

[jhautz]

I was reading in this thread here that the D an Y motors are in fact a little different. That the D wind tends to work well in either rotation direction and the Y wind motors work better in one rotation directn vs the other.

http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7277

Could it possibly be that the Y wind you have is spinning the "wrong" way?

Maybee I read this wrong or just didnt understand what I was reading....

EDIT:
I think that might be the wrong thread... But I do remember reading that around here recently. Not sure exactly where now. Anyone know anything about this or.... I could just be talking out of my ass.:002:

[BrianG]

Once you sit down and think about it, it kinda makes sense that a Y runs more efficiently. Consider the delta "diagram" below:

     3
     /\
    /  \
   A    B
  /      \
 /        \
1____C_____2

Points 1, 2 , 3 are where the motor wires go. Points A, B, C are the coils. If you apply power to points 3 and 1, the majority of the current will go through coil A, but some will also go through coils B and C. The current through B and C will be less since those coils are effectively in series. Just think of coil A in parallel with coils B and C in series. So, even though coil A is supposed to be the only one energized, coils B and C will be also and will provide some resistance.

This is how I see it anyway, so please correct me if I am wrong.

jhautz, I read that too and it concerned me. I mean, how can an electric motor run better in one direction than the other? From what I gathered though, this difference is a result of the way that timing affects the Wye wound motors. If you have the timing set at an optimal setting for one direction, it'll be screwed in the other. Of course I could be way off base.

There are two perspectives from which I look at this. The first is that the Quark employs automatic timing which is supposed to set the timing at the optimal level by itself, in which case the negative effects of the timing in one direction or the other are moot.

The other perspective is that I'm screwed because the way that my Quark works with the Neu is that the Quark is showing the reverse light when I'm moving forward and the forward light when I'm in reverse. Perhaps my motor is spinning the wrong way.

The funny thing is that if this was an issue, why didn't Neu bring this up when I complained about the performance of the motor? I told them that I was running it in a truggy with a Quark.

Anyway, I ran the truggy for a while with the 1512 1.5Y. I had it geared 17/46 and the performance is acceptable for the track. The power is NOTHING near a Feigao 9XL geared 16/46. I mean this in terms of raw, brute power. With the Feigao, I had to be careful not to wheelie. With the Neu, I have to try to wheelie to get the front end off of the ground.

After 5 minutes of hard running, I got a temp of 115 on the esc and 160 on the motor. I would have thought that 17/46 would have been some pretty tall gearing, but the readings say that I need to gear up more. Maybe I'll try 16/44 later on and see what happens.

Oh, btw, the issue brought up by jhautz was the reason that I requested the 2.5d. Unfortunately, I didn't get it, so I can't tell.

S. Neu did email me back and say that the offer still stands, but the last thing I want to do right now is do any more waiting.

It really doesn't matter at this point. I still have that disgusted feeling in the pitt of my stomach and I think I hear ebay beckoning me for my 8ight T.

I do have to say that the Neu/Quark combo runs well. One of these days I might get a 1515/1Y for one of my trucks, just for the performance fix.

Oh, I just realized that I made the mistake of thinking that the Neu kv ratings were under load. I just read that they are not, so I believe that the 1.5Y is actually something like a 1700kv motor, which puts in right on par with the 9XL. I just can't figure out why the 9XL appears to have so much more power with less gearing than the Neu motor does.

[Patrick]

Can the diffs be flipped in the 8ight T, so they would run in reverse?
You could try flipping them and reversing the motor to try and see if it does run better in one direction.
Don't sell it yet. If you are getting sick of it just put it away for a while, then in a few months or whatever you might see it sitting wherever you left it and decide to give it a drive. If your anything like me you would have forgotten the things that frustrated you about it and remembered the things you liked about it. And maybe by then there will be system out that will fix the headaches you had with it. That's what I'd do anyway if you like the actual truggy.

[Serum]

perhaps the 9XL is better suited for the standard timing of the quark, i would try to setup the quark with more torque in the advanced programming menu. (this is the startup power) try it on the highest setting, play with other settings as well, that's my advice.

[Serum]

Brian; your theory would explain why it would have more torque.

OK, I'm going to start fiddling with the torque setting and such. I do have it on the softest setting and didn't even really think about it. I guess the MMs have me spoiled.

I'm geared 17/46 right now and I'm starting to see some cogging. What has me a bit worried is that I can get the motor temps up to about 160 pretty easily.

OK, I messed with the torque settings. I set it all the way up to "dynamic," whatever that's supposed to mean.

The short of it is that the Neu 1512 1.5Y doesn't have nearly the raw power of the 9XL. I have the Neu geared 17/46 and it still doesn't equal what the 9XL was doing at 14/46.

Still in all, the 1512 only gets up to around 165*F. I was hoping for lower temps, but they don't seem to get any higher either. If I run it for 5 minutes, it temps 165. If I run it for 15 minutes, it still temps 165. If it keeps running like that, I'd be fine with it.

I haven't tried the 18T pinion yet and I can still go down to the 44T spur. I'm just afraid to try it because I'm already getting a bit of cogging.

[jhautz]

Your supposed to gear a higher kv motor down.... not up! Go back to your original gearing that you ran with the 9xl and tell me how it feels. Gearing the 9XL up as high as you geared the Neu 1512 would cause it to overheat in minutes. The fact that you are running it at only 165 is a testament to the Neu. Also the 9xl will feel less torquey at that gearing.

If you not getting more speed out of it at the same gearing you for sure have something wrong with the motor. At the same gear ratio the higher KV motor on the same power source should run at a higher speed.

Gearing them the same should give you a better view of the relative power of the 2 motors.

EDIT:
if you get 35mph on you 9xl geared at 14/46 and you are looking for the same speed/power only coolier temps you would need to gear the Neu 1512/1.5Y down (very slightly). Gearing up will naturally give you more top end and less low end.

jhautz, therein lies my problem. When I gear the Neu motor at the same gearing that I'm running the 9XL, the performance of the Neu seems anemic. A few of the guys at the track asked me why I went with such a slow motor.

If it wasn't for the heat issue, I would have gone back to the 9XL.

I didn't think that I was overgeared because the Quark is running at about 130 or so. I thought I had to gear up more, but the cogging stopped me from doing that.

I did think that there was something wrong with the motor. That's why I sent it back to Neu. They said that nothing is wrong with it and sent it back to me.

I had to gear the Neu at 17/46 to match the speed that I was getting with the Feigao at 14/46. I know that it doesn't sound right, but that's what I have.

To hell with it. I'll gear back down to 15/46 and see what happens to the motor temps.

I have been quite disappointed with this 1.5Y. I was supposed to get a 2.5d back, but go figure. They screwed up and sent me the wrong motor.

[jhautz]

Take them up on the offer to exchange for the 2.5D!!!!!!!! There is no way people should be making comments about how slow it is. When I run my revo with the 1512/2.5D I get people walking up to check it out all the time cuz they cant believe how fast it is.

I would think the 1.5y would be very similar but maybe there is something about the Y winds.... or that particular y wind.

[bdebde]

I would sure trade it out if the offer is still open.