Are Zippy Lipos safe with a Castle MMM Speedy? - Page 9 - RC-Monster Forums

fastbaja5b · 03.02.2009, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMin

Guys. I understand castle's standpoint here. As far as I understand, the problem is that the zippies cannot handle the current coming back to the batts(they got to handle 540 joules!! in 1-2 seconds). They cannot hold the voltage below 30v(FET max voltage) especially when braking. You will need to give the poor little zippies a helping hand to dump the load/current somewhere. Why not fix the problem by helping out your poor little zippies and any other batts that cannot handle the load? See my "investigating the mmm thread." as I will be putting the info there.

What castle standpoint? I can't even get a reply to an email from Castle support!

Pdelcast · 03.02.2009, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fastbaja5b

What castle standpoint? I can't even get a reply to an email from Castle support!

Dude,

What's your question? I've gone back through your posts, and I don't really see a question anywhere...

Patrick

lincpimp · 03.02.2009, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

Dude,

What's your question? I've gone back through your posts, and I don't really see a question anywhere...

Patrick

Are zippy lipos good enough for a MMM... Kinda open-ended, huh?!

Basically will a lipo rated for 100amps at 6s be ok in the flux, geared with the 25t pinion?

My experience says no... Maybe for a run or two, but not with good results...

Pdelcast · 03.03.2009, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lincpimp

Are zippy lipos good enough for a MMM... Kinda open-ended, huh?!

Basically will a lipo rated for 100amps at 6s be ok in the flux, geared with the 25t pinion?

My experience says no... Maybe for a run or two, but not with good results...

I already said in another post that as a rule, Castle Creations does not comment on the performance, usability, fitness of purpose, etc. for other brands.

Besides, I don't have any "Zippy" batteries to test with. I haven't tested "Zippy" batteries. So I don't have any idea whether "Zippy" batteries are fit for the purpose of setups on the MMM. I would also imagine it would matter (A LOT!) what kind of setup you ran (pinion, overall gear ratio, etc.) that you ran (as it is with ALL batteries...)

My suggestion -- run the smallest pinion that gives you the performance you are looking for. And don't try to push anything too hard. At the power levels the MMM runs at, bad things will happen very quickly...

Patrick

lincpimp · 03.03.2009, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

I already said in another post that as a rule, Castle Creations does not comment on the performance, usability, fitness of purpose, etc. for other brands.

Besides, I don't have any "Zippy" batteries to test with. I haven't tested "Zippy" batteries. So I don't have any idea whether "Zippy" batteries are fit for the purpose of setups on the MMM. I would also imagine it would matter (A LOT!) what kind of setup you ran (pinion, overall gear ratio, etc.) that you ran (as it is with ALL batteries...)

My suggestion -- run the smallest pinion that gives you the performance you are looking for. And don't try to push anything too hard. At the power levels the MMM runs at, bad things will happen very quickly...

Patrick

Good advice...

Zippys are compareable to maxamps (performace, not price).

I would think that moving a 12+ lb truck at 60+ mph will require a larger mah 30c 6s lipo. I find my 4500mah fp 6s 30c lipo is being pushed hard in the lst (heavier than the flux), and it is geared for 45mph... Some of the new 40c thunderpower lipos look to be the best bet... I have a jet buddy (BVM) who has some of them and says that they are leaps and bounds better than the 30c fp lipos...

Pdelcast · 03.03.2009, 12:23 AM

Besides,

There's like multiple cell types that you can order with "Zippy" batteries (Korean, Chinese-1, Chinese-2) many different sizes, different discharge rates, etc.etc.etc.... So it would be impossible for me to make any kind of blanket statements.

I guess I'm not sure why people always try to save money in batteries -- they are the most important part of the system. Poor batteries mean poor performance, and good batteries mean good performance. So buy the best batteries you can afford, and skimp on the "bling" parts.

lincpimp · 03.03.2009, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pdelcast

Besides,

There's like multiple cell types that you can order with "Zippy" batteries (Korean, Chinese-1, Chinese-2) many different sizes, different discharge rates, etc.etc.etc.... So it would be impossible for me to make any kind of blanket statements.

I guess I'm not sure why people always try to save money in batteries -- they are the most important part of the system. Poor batteries mean poor performance, and good batteries mean good performance. So buy the best batteries you can afford, and skimp on the "bling" parts.

More good advice...just remember that alot of people in this hobby are on a budget... Don't laugh too hard!! I always tell people to take up a cheaper hobby, like quilting, if they cannot afford the good stuff.

It is really all your fault Patrick, you are selling this great equipment way too cheap...

BrianG · 03.03.2009, 01:36 AM

It's just a matter of having champagne taste on a beer budget. Way back in the day, I used to work in car audio. People would spends thousands on the amps, speakers, and head unit only to skimp on wiring. That would be like having a 500HP engine in your car with a cardboard toilet paper tube driveshaft.

shizzon · 03.03.2009, 01:43 AM

I would say that with most things electrical the performance will be governed by your power source. For car audio this would be a combination of the alternator, batteries and wiring. For rc cars the battery for the most part as most packs are equipped with leads that can handle the currents expected of the battery, some even bigger than needed I would say.

I have learned the hard way with batteries, the 3s maxamps packs that i bought couldnt even hold up to a slash/vxl combo. though i did manage to find a setup that had low enough amp draw for them, one is currently taped to my DX2.0...LOL, 4 runs on it and voltage hasnt gone down a bit.

lincpimp · 03.03.2009, 02:47 AM

Damn, why is it whenever we talk about poor battery purchases maxamps always comes up... Someone should give them a break, it is not like they are making much money

shizzon · 03.03.2009, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lincpimp

Damn, why is it whenever we talk about poor battery purchases maxamps always comes up... Someone should give them a break, it is not like they are making much money

At this point i would say that buying those batteries have been my # 1 regret since getting back into RC, that and the MMM i just fried the other day because of sheer stupidity!!!

lincpimp · 03.03.2009, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shizzon

At this point i would say that buying those batteries have been my # 1 regret since getting back into RC, that and the MMM i just fried the other day because of sheer stupidity!!!

Right there with you dude. I bought alot of maxamps stuff before I finally realized that flashy ads do not mean good products... I have had much better success buying used enerland packs from the plane guys. That is sad...

I have cooked a few escs, all in good fun!!!

kvrc · 03.03.2009, 10:52 AM

[QUOTE=lincpimp;266433]Good advice...

Zippys are compareable to maxamps (performace, not price).

with all due respect i dont think that is an accurate statement. myself and many of my racing buddies have had maxamps packs and now zippy 4s 5000 h and r packs in our 1/8 scale racing buggys.
i can tell you that the zippy packs are much better at holding voltage under load and producing power. the guys i am speaking of have raced 1/8 buggys going on 3+ years in southeast michigan so we have a lot of time on them.
also many of these guys have the higher end enerland based packs as well and they say that those packs may stay in balance a little better if ran down close to dumping. but for twice as much money i guess they should.

MrMin · 03.03.2009, 11:10 AM

I can understand your statement, but that is purely speculative basd on your experience. I also run zippy-h's and zippy-r's and think they are great and "believe"(as in religion) that they hold their voltage. There are zippy-h, zippy-r, zippy-ec,flightmax etc... so many flavours. You should also test the batts in lab to verify all this.
Thing is, I have verified that Patrick is telling the TRUTH. when you brake you use the battery to dump 500+ watts of power in 1-2 seconds. If the batts(or something else) cannot sink this power then the ESC will blow up in nice little smoky plastic pieces.

Actually, what i'm trying to get to is if a batt is bad then it should not trash your ESC, but that is fact because the mmm uses the batts to dump load(which is very common practice) from the esc acting like a generator when braking. I believe there should be a extra protection circuit to give the bad batts a helping hand and then bad batts just give bad performance, not smoked plastic.

Patrick is trying to offer part of the solution via a ripple monitoring solution firmware upgrade, so PLEASE dont think he is not willing to help.

kvrc · 03.03.2009, 11:54 AM

mr min i am not just posting my experience but that of about 10+ people who actually race 1/8 buggys. i still find it funny that the wimpy mamba max can handle pretty powerful motors on 4s with no problem but the original monsters didn't.
yes i know the monster will allow more current through but that still dosent cut it in my book. all i am saying is the zippy h and r 5000 packs are definitly good enough for racing a 1/8 scale buggy. the question is were the first gen monsters. i think from all the problems they had the answer is pretty obvious.
i myself run a mamba max with an extra 25v novak cap on 4s. when i was choosing a new esc 4 months back i was afraid to get a monster and opted for the tried and true mamba and i dont regret it a bit.