Ty for the offer and I would get the MMM of you but I really need the combo, with the esc at $159 that means I am getting the motor at $120. I dont think I will have the opportunity to get one of these so cheap again. On the MM5700, called CC and they said to send it in with $45 and they will replace.

Sorry I could not help.

I saw you other thread....so you do have the motor!! But you had to buy the combo just to get it even thought you didnt need the esc?

which other thread? no, i dont have the 2200kv motor. i have 3 MMMs though cuz Castle replaced all my burnt V2s. i would normally hang on to them but i dont think i will be building anything that requires a MMM for a while. and i have the 5700kv motor in my Schumacher, which goes on ebay today. the car is cool in that it does 75 mph but on-road just isnt my thing i realized. so the 5700kv has been run like 3 times for a few minutes is all but my MMMs are in the box. anyway, thanks for the reply. just thought i would let you know. if anyone else is interested though let me know or just get on ebay. my user id on ebay is lilkingbimmers and i have 100% positive feedback.

Im sorry james...i guess I am just learning how to read threads:oops: You were replying to someone else. My bad...must have been pretty tired last nite.

PM sent. What do you think about the new medusa motors, have you heard much??

lol. Once again my mistake. Hope I did not offend.

offended?! why? dont sweat it! i wish you were right and i did have the motor but i dont. no worries, man.

so get this everyone. despite how much i loved my carbon fiber chassis i knew that it had to do with why my RC8T wasnt jumping right. so i took some 1/8" alum 7075 plate and made another chassis with the exact same layout. this time i put the kickup in the front. i didnt change any settings whatsoever on the truck at all. as expected the truck jumps amaxing now. no more nose dives. it handles the same as the CF chassis but jumps much better. also, the truck is a lot louder now with the alum chassis. i have some theories about the resulting changes though.

so first, i dont think that it jumps better now because of the kickup. i think it jumps better due to chassis flex. when i had the 5mm cf chassis off i tried to bend it. the thing will not even bend 1mm when trying to break it over my knee. the 3mm 7075 alum however i can bend with my hands at least 5-7mm of flex. i think this is what makes all the difference. because there is no flex in the cf chassis the rear wheels are launched harder up when coming off the jump. the flex of the alum tends to absorb some of this force resulting in a more balanced flight. i think if i had gone with a 3mm cf it would have some flex to it and work out better. may try that down the road.

secondly, why is the alum more noisy? i had never thought about it before but obviously the entire chassis of the truck vibrates when running. hence why we use threadlock. this vibration is audible. the 5mm cf has a much greater sound dampening quality over any kind of metal. you guys should have heard it. it was the coolest sounding truggy you have ever heard. it was like a silent 60mph stealth. the alum chassis now just sounds like any other truggy i have driven. kinda disappointing but it is more important that it jumps right. anyway, the alum chassis is not realy pretty. just a temporary until Mikes RC8T conversion kit gets here. i bought it a few days. so i will use that chassis when it arrives. cant wait.

sucks that i spent all that time and money on that 5mm cf chassis only for it to not work as well as i had hoped. i thought about getting 3 or 4mm but i didnt want to take any chances of the chassis breaking on a huge jump. seeing the quality of the cf from dagraphite now i know that it would not break. in fact, i am more concerned that even if i went with 3mm there would still not be enough flex for it to perform right. they make some super strong carbon.

i should have the new RCM RC8T kit tomorrow and i will be sure to post the build when finished.

<a href="http://s471.photobucket.com/albums/rr77/ryujames/?action=view&current=DSC00713.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr77/ryujames/DSC00713.jpg" border="0" alt="ascalum2"></a>
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Ryu looks good I agree on the chassis flex I used to have the aluminum chassis braces on my 8ight T but took them off because I felt it didn't jump as well. When I drove a friends RTR 8ight T it felt even better than mine since the RTR chassis flex's alot more. I want to try a Flex chassis but haven't been able to get myself to drop the coin on it yet.

Raney,
you finish that 8t yet? throw a new thread up. i want to see that MMM 2200kv monster in there! how does it drive? tell me you finished it!

Yeah I got a thread in the Castle Section here's a link http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17438

sorry to hear that you're not happy with the "kick-up-free" chassis. that chassis rocks, great looks.
I started to build myself a carbonfiber-chassis some months ago, but got stuck due to the kick-up problem. First I wanted to do build it without kickup, but I ve been told that there's a kickup for a reason.

I have already cut two pieces of carbonfiber (aproxx 1,7mm thick each, much cheaper like that) in the shape of the chassis, to glue it together as one piece. I had planned to have the front piece of the chassis made by a seperate piece of carbon, to realise the kickup. the seperated frontpiece where the front diff is mounted on, is "connected" to the chassis by two layers of aluminium (one top, one bottom, inbetween the cabon). the aluminium layer in the front is realising that kickup.
glued together with some good 2-component epoxy glue (there are big differences in quality), baked in the oven with around 70*c, it gets very strong. like that I would have a carbonfiber chassis, including a kickup. as you have such a brilliant piece of carbon, you could problably "add" a kickup afterwards.

the reason why I didn't finish it was that I would only have saved a few grams like that, approx. 100 grams or less, compared to the original one.

As I already have a "top-deck" made by a piece of Carbonfiber (approx.4x30cm), which connects the front, middle and rear diff, it's already quite stable. some folks say, a 1/8 buggy should not be too stiff, as a slightly flexible chassis is good for handling (I think mugen used to have a mbx chassis which was quite flexible, mbx4?).

the reason why i took the top-deck solution is because of the crappy plastic of the diff-boxes, wich is too flexible and like that killing the diff-teeth. like that it got a bit better, I now have some other diffs.

The other, more simple way would be to laminate the chassis, made by glass and carbonfiber. you take the original aluminium-chassis as a sample, and with some sayers of carbon and kevlar-cloths you build a new piece of carbonfiber.
This was my first idea, but the problem here is - working with carbonfiber-cloths for the first time - it might get not stable enough and too heavy. It takes some experience.

there was this guy in germany who made a selfmade lighweight-chassi (like a "u"-shape) for his losi-buggy, custom-made carbonfiber for 2s-lipos. supa-stable, supa-rigid, supa-lightweigh.

eg. this chassis is also made by more than one piece:
http://www.offroad-cult.org/Board/ma...ing-t8003.html

he's a real expert and solved it like that:
http://www.ace-cars.de/DE%20AC/Bilde...0Bild%201.html

About a week ago I emailed matrix about there chassis and asked if they are going to make a BL designed CF chassis for the 8 and he said its already in the works and has a proto-type being tested....but no idea how long till production. I had pics of the proto but erased b/c I lost interest in paying $200 for a chassis for my basher. Just not cost effective IMO.

There are two relatively easy ways to get kick up on a CF chassis.

The first is to join flat CF to the stock Alum. nose at the steering posts. Mill each to half thickness (assuming they're the same thickness) and overlap right at the steering posts. The screws holding the steering posts in place will also clamp the chassis halves together. If you really want some extra reassurance, some Scotch Weld 2216 epoxy can be used on the joint.

The second is to mold it in yourself. Make a wood form with the required 7deg kick up. Finish with some poly. Lots of mold release wax. Lay up the CF in a traditional wet layup (tutorials all over the internet), some cotton batting around the edges, and stick the whole thing in a double sealed FoodSaver bag, draw the vacuum, and double seal the other end. Make the part oversized so you can cut off the rough edges. If you really want to be trick (and expensive), there is some pretty low temp pre-preg (180 deg cure) available. The foodsaver bag has a max temp of about 200 deg. Make the form out of Alum, polish well, and repeat the above except laying with the pre-preg cloth and setting in a 180 deg oven for 4 hours. Almost as good as commercially auto-claved CF, but with the kick. Only problem is the pre-preg needs to be ordered in larger quantities and can't last long enough to do onesies twosies.

@ florianz and pb4ugo:

:quote:The first is to join flat CF to the stock Alum. nose at the steering posts. Mill each to half thickness (assuming they're the same thickness) and overlap right at the steering posts. The screws holding the steering posts in place will also clamp the chassis halves together. If you really want some extra reassurance, some Scotch Weld 2216 epoxy can be used on the joint.
:quote:

this is exactly what i plan to do. i was going to do this from the beginning but thought i would try it without the kickup first cuz i would rather have one solid piece than a multi-piece unit. i have seen Matrix Concepts chassis' and have heard they hold up very well so i am sure it will work out. plus, where my CF is 5mm i am going to shave off 3mm and then place the kick up portion of the stock alum. chassis on bottom. this way the bottom will be flush and seamless. i will cut it in a puzzle type mesh up so it holds together well.

i will still have the issue of chassis flex though. so what i plan to do for this is mill out 2.5mm throughout several areas of the chassis. this wasnt an option before but through RCM i have met someone who is willing to mill any CF for me. (thanks Tim!!) i will pay of course but at least now this is an option. so i think we might be able to come up with a sweet CF chassis. maybe even somthing that could be worth producing. we'll see.

here is kinda what i am thinking. cutting the stock chassis along the line and then milling out the bottom 3mm of the CF chassis in the same shape. then using the steering posts as 2 of the 4 countersunk screws that will hold the two pieces together. i think it will work.

<a href="http://s471.photobucket.com/albums/rr77/ryujames/?action=view&current=DSC00745.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr77/ryujames/DSC00745.jpg" border="0" alt="chassisfusion2"></a>
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Must be the same Tim that helped me with a .dxf file! Good guy.

Looks a whole lot easier with the aluminum front end... makes me want to have a go.


is there any other way to bond the aluminum to the carbon fiber

See this:

I read it....



Doesnt answer my question- i dont have a mill to take down the aluminum and carbon fiber..

BL_RV0 just did a post and mentioned he has a new manual milling tool and willing to do jobs for $15/hr.

The Scotch Weld is the bonding agent to use. You can use plates above and below the junction for reinforcement, bonding them as well. Good epoxies such as this create a glue joint that is stronger than the material.

The trucking industry uses such an epoxy and the joint will stay together even after a crash. A few if not all the new over passes are joined with epoxy as well.

Version 3 of the brushless RC8T
 

so here is the history of the Carbon RC8T so far.

version1: 5mm Carbon chassis. looked badass but jumped like crap cuz the chassis was just way to stiff. super silent setup due to sound/vibration absorption by the thick carbon

version2: 3mm 7075 alum chassis. this ran pretty good overall. add lots of weight though since i am not able to mill the chassis and it didnt look that great. it sure did jump better though. much louder than the carbon chassis.

version3: 3mm RCM chassis and RC8T brushless conversion kit. sound is inbetween the carbon and my own alum chassis. sounds good. neither quiet nor loud. esc is not ideally mounted. and worst of all - no mechanical brakes. better than version 2 in quality in appearance but lack of mech brakes is a big hit.

so needless to say there will be a version 4. i hope to nail it with this one. have you all started to get an idea of what a perfectionist i am? or anal? whatever you want to call it. anyway, version 4 i am just going to go all out. its going to be a carbon chassis, 3mm this time in hopes of some flex for good jumping and, the front kickup will be there cuz i will fuse the front end from the stock chassis to the 3mm carbon one. also, all cuts, milling, and holes i am going to have professionally done with a CNC. it will take some time and money but at least i will end up with the Rc8T i set out to build. or at least i better or i could be very upset....:diablo:

version3 pics (water droplets cuz i just finished a killer snow run)

<a href="http://s471.photobucket.com/albums/rr77/ryujames/?action=view&current=DSC00749.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr77/ryujames/DSC00749.jpg" border="0" alt="rcm6"></a>
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james the front center chassis brace goes in the cent of the tabs, there is a different ball you press into the chassis brace to get it to fit. also why did you choose to mount the esc off the back of the center diff when is alot of room on the chassis behind your battery?

looks good, and mechanical brakes arent needed.

thanks rootar,
i have already moved the chassis brace after talking with Mike. and i mounted the esc where it is for better l/r balance but i dont like it there so i am going to move it behind the battery today. i am also putting im mech. brakes today. i think it will be sweet when done.

take lots of build pics for this noob.

already was planning on it. i will post them all when finished.

here is the build pics of version 4 as promised. still needs some adjusment though. because the center diff sits so high off the chassis with the RCM conversion i had to use 3 shims on the servo stands and 1/8" of spacers on the servo arm and the servo still doesnt sit high enough. so i am going to somehow try to make the setup work without the huge center diff shim.

i also had to use a Tekno long shank pinion after making the spacer so that the motor can didnt rub the brakes. anyway, the pics tell the story for the most part.

i also move the esc behind the battery. looks much cleaner.

<a href="http://s471.photobucket.com/albums/rr77/ryujames/?action=view&current=DSC00754.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr77/ryujames/DSC00754.jpg" border="0" alt="v4.15"></a>
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2 pices of 3mm carbon glued together for a 6mm piece. just enough to clear the brakes now. one side had to be ground down to clear the brakes. 2 screws hold the piece against the motor and the other two screws hold themotor to the mount.


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<a href="http://s471.photobucket.com/albums/rr77/ryujames/?action=view&current=DSC00760.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr77/ryujames/DSC00760.jpg" border="0" alt="v4.11"></a>
<a href="http://s471.photobucket.com/albums/rr77/ryujames/?action=view&current=DSC00762.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr77/ryujames/DSC00762.jpg" border="0" alt="v4.9"></a>
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<a href="http://s471.photobucket.com/albums/rr77/ryujames/?action=view&current=DSC00764.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr77/ryujames/DSC00764.jpg" border="0" alt="v4.7"></a>
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a couple more pics. the things seems to drive great now. havent been able to test on track yet but will soon. love the mech brakes finally.


<a href="http://s471.photobucket.com/albums/rr77/ryujames/?action=view&current=DSC00767.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr77/ryujames/DSC00767.jpg" border="0" alt="v4.4"></a>



pic of the shims and nut used for spacer on servo arm



<a href="http://s471.photobucket.com/albums/rr77/ryujames/?action=view&current=DSC00768.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr77/ryujames/DSC00768.jpg" border="0" alt="v4.3"></a>



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Aluminum may be a better material for the brake spacer because it is thermally conductive - as is the motor mount. CF won't transfer any heat, so your motor might run a bit warmer than with an aluminum brake spacer.

Here is something else to consider: you could use a smaller servo for the rear brake only to save weight, and then mix in motor brakes since the motor brake tends to get transferred to the front anyways (this is what causes these conversions to push with motor brakes only). With this setup you can tune the braking from your radio without messing with any linkages. It's just a thought, and this is the setup I am using on my 1/8 buggy.

so this weekend i had it on the track finally. it did seem to run hotter than normal. after 20 minutes of hard driving my motor temp was 144*, esc was 135*. this is on an indoor track so ambient temp was roughly 70*. this is alittle warmer than i like to see so i may try the alum suggestion but i dont have any thick enough right now.

i have made some adjustments since the last pics. i got rid of the center diff shim so that the brake servo lines up without all the shims and also this really lowered my CG. i am able to run 13/46 gearing now for less rotational weight.

the thing drove amazing at the track. after a few suspension tweaks it was perfect and absolutely nobody was even keeping up. there was a lot of interest in it. hope this spurs others to build their own 1/8 conversion since it is in its infancy here.

anyway, i am pretty pleased with it right now and dont plan to make any changes to this current setup for a little while. i still want to build a carbon chassis that will work so i will be building a milled 3mm carbon chassis with kickup. i think this will provide the flex that is needed. i also now have the tekno chassis for the RC8T and it looks very nice so i plan to try that soon also, maybe with a complete separate build though.

im not sure if anyone has mentioned this before about the kickup on the front section of the chassis but carbonfiber can be heated and bent the trick is rapidly cooling it off to maintain strength and shape. Just remember to much heat can hurt you where as not enough heat will not ruin anything.

I also made a carbon fiber chassis (4mm) except mine was for my 8ight buggy...
here is a picture from way back when it was still in building/planning stages and investment in a neu motor

so i tried the idea of heating up the carbon to bend it and it worked but it also ruined the integrity of the carbon as i suspected. its still pretty tough but i dont think it will hold up off a big jump. its actually really strong if i push on the nose upward but if i push against it downward i can hear it cracking. i could probably break it with my hands. however, most of the force put on the kickup is in an upward motion so it might hold. this chassis has become just a test/throw away chassis so i am not too worried about it. i am going to order some 3 and 4mm pieces to find the best mix of strength and flex. this 5mm piece is just too stiff.

you can see in the pics that the layers of carbon have slightly separated and the outer layer has bubbled away from the others. also, this produced a large wrinkle on the surface that i tried to dremel down but it still may affect how the front diff case mounts up. might not sit real flush.

i think with some practice this could be done without ruining the piece at all. i didnt think to try it a few times on some other scraps before doing it on the chassis. oh well. thanks for the tip.

<a href="http://s471.photobucket.com/albums/rr77/ryujames/?action=view&current=DSC00771.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr77/ryujames/DSC00771.jpg" border="0" alt="kickup5"></a>
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The epoxies used in CF are not thermoformable. The only way to have a structurally sound bend in it is to mold it there.

Didn't you buy this piece from Dave Inkel (D.A. Graphite)? He used to do chassis back in the day with the kick up molded in. I spoke with him about doing it for me a couple years ago and he said he could if I sent him the form. I never did because I decided it would be cheaper and more fun to do it myself.

yes molding it that way from the start in the initial mold process is going to better and more structurally sound. However slighty heating and bending it 6-7 degrees should not hurt unless to much heat is added and the epoxy begins to bubble or distort.

dagraphite is who i bought my 5mm plate from but at the time they said they had no way of doing a piece with the kickup molded in. thats weird. either they just wanted to make money off me by having me pay for a custom mold or they have other molds patented by clients and wasnt able to use them for other jobs. all i know is, their work is impeccable and their carbon is Formula 1 quality.

how much did he quote you to do a custom piece? what do you mean "send him the form"? you mean the stock alum. chassis? which chassis' was he making with the kickup already molded in? have any pics or links to those chassis? more info would be appreciated. thanks.

i dont know, for the few attempts i might go through to get this right i might as well just pay the cash for a mold. i think it could work but the bend causes the cloth to wrinkle, ruining the smooth surface.

By form I meant the tool with the angle. It would have been a chunk of aluminum with the 7deg angle milled into it. If you talk to Robin (his wife) you will not get anywhere regarding custom work. Almost all e-mails are handled by Robin.

Back twenty years ago he was doing chassis for the RC-10, Ultima, and so on. He was forming them with the 30deg kick up those cars had (well, actually 20 on the Ultima). Many of the other brand aftermarket carbon fiber components were produced by D.A. Graphite. I don't remember specifics of the quote. I think he was just pricing it like his normal plates, just laid up on my tool instead.

Have you considered doing it yourself? Save you a ton of money.

pb4ugo,
well you are exactly right. i have been dealing working with Robin on everything i do with them. she just gave me daves number to day though so i plan to call him.

as far as those old designs that explains why when i asked them to make me a sheet with 7* kickup for my RC8T Robin said they could only do sheets with 20* or 30* angles on them. i considered going with the 20* but i bent an alum plate to see if it would work and it was way too steep to work with the RC8T.

i would actually like to talk to you a little more on this. i will pm you my number if you dont mind giving me a call.

i know its for a losi but check this out http://www.matrixconceptsinc.com/