Ah, yes i see.. in another post.

Right in that post where you posted the types of windings you know.. That didn't helped keeping it going straight.

Well; Shoot Lehner an email and post what his answer is, i think it are the production costs i mentioned earlier. If possible at all. >> the coils are pressed in place once the windings are positioned.

yah, that's the tricky part eh, trying to get the little 'run-back' wires pressed in there. Maybe printed tracers would work? like around the motor can...

Did you ever observed a BL motor? the thick wires going in (about 12 awg) are the actual wires/litze as used in the can.. they take the full power.

Printed tracers.. Wouldn't that add more to the production costs? LOL

hey, it's just a thought. yah, i know the 12 gauage is just all the internal wires bundled up, it's just easier to wind and compress that way, and probably more durable during compression. Do you know how many 'seperate' wires there are? Also, what is the ratio of each conductors current in the three phases, is it something like .71 or something, i can't remember the number. Or is it .66 of the total current going through motor?

The total current will go thru the motor. you mean per phase? I guess that would depend on the poles of the rotor..

I heard something about the Y and D winded Neu motors, what i heard is that the differences are not noticeable

well, the main reason is that thick round wires leave an awful lot of space (air) between the different wires. this would result in a less efficient motor.

That's the main reason. the fact that it's easier put in place (more flexible) is a nice feature that comes with it.

no, you can't tell. That depends on the current the motor needs to take, and the amount of winds it has. The less winds (higher KV), the more wires 1 phase will be made of.

The more winds a motor has, the thinner the input wires are. (and this is possible, because the motor is made for a higher voltage, so the current going thru it will be lower as well. (proportionally the other way around to reach the same power)

About the smaller winds, the air thing, i don't think that matters, a circle is a circle, the smaller wire would just spread the air gaps around more. And ya, i guess they need a certain amount of wires allow different turns of motors, and to keep consistency between each turn # motor. you know what i mean.

Why don't motors use square wires? Some high power speakers use this, but they call it "edge wound" and it eliminates the gaps, improves cooling, and improves current flow. Probably would be more expensive...

yah, i think square wire is harder to spin/make. i don't think it would work in a motor cuz of all the twisty turnings, you dig...

Would you know anything about using Bifilar in motors by any chance? BrianG

Yeah, the twisties would be a bit difficult to negotiate, but if the winding was done by machine, it could be done I think.

Yes, I know what Bifilar means, but in which way? There are several ways they can be connected; Straight parallel connected pair, series connected pair but parallel wound, parallel but opposing directions, etc?

I've also wondered at what inductance these motors have. If the inductive reactance value is too high, compared to the pure resistive, it may be "difficult" for an ESC to drive. Has anyone heard of a capacitive correcting netork that would help bring the voltage and current in phase, which would make the ESCs job easier?

Do you mean motor starting capacitors? Like that have a relay to disconnect when up to speed?


Has anyone heard of the Halbach array? It's magnetic sequence where each subsequent magnetic is turn 90' from the next, and this cancels the field on one side of the array, and magnifies it on the other side. A small company (couple guys) made a BL motor for solar races and it used Halbach array, the motor had a full load efficiency of 98%. WOW.

Also, can someone explain the Neu motor codes... like what does 1515 1/Y mean?

No, not starting caps, but caps to cancel the negative phase angle of current vs voltage due to the inductive reactance. Really, power factor correction. Before this thought went any further, I did some reading and found that you definitely should not use caps when the motor is being driven with a veriable speed controller, which our BL motors are. I guess that ESC designers, knowing this, probably take this into consideration somehow when designing the circuits, or maybe simply don't care.

I'm sure there is all kinds of technology out there just waiting for application in our BL world, but there must be reasons why it hasn't been done yet. Cost, complexity, comparatively low market penetration of BL equipment, etc.

I've also wondered at the Neu motor codes, but simply don't know. The 15xx and 19xx series motors are 15.6mm and 19.6mm in diameter, respectively. That seems to be a pattern until you get to the 22 series, then it falls apart since those cans are 2.5" in diameter. The last two numbers in the model seem to be related to can length. No conversion per se, but 1512's are 2.4" long, 1515's are 2.7" long, etc. But then the same last two digits mean different lengths for other series motors. I assume the "D" and "Y" stand for Delta and Wye, which is simply the coil configuration. But the number is puzzling but it seems to relate to the number of turns, but not the actual amount of turns. The lower the number the lower the turns/higher the KV.

It would be near impossible to use square wires in a motor. The routing would be a PITA, especialy thru corners. also; square wire is more sensitive for damage than round wires (on the angles the isolation will be thinner, and these angles make the windings easely shorted when pressed together.

With speakers it's fair easy to use square wire; the voicecoil is round, routing the wire straight is easy.

Yes Brian, Y stands for Wye and D for Delta winded.

What is the difference in the wye and delta winds?

A 'Wye' (Y) connection motor is the motor phases connected at one point... imagine the ends of three coils started a single point, and all connected, and then the other end of all three 'phase winds' are the input power leads.

A 'Delta' (D) configuration motor i the most used, imagine three pencils, now connect the lead of one pencil to the eraser of the next, do so in a triangle, now imagine the coils instead, and think that each connection between lead and eraser end is an input phase lead on the motor. Each input phase splits off in two, half going trough one 'phase coil' and the other half going trough the next 'phase coil'.

Do you understand now?

You can change Lehner motors config... between delta and wye i believe