RaserTech, brushless power from induction...

[zeropointbug]

Hey guys, check this out. RaserTech, a new motor licensing company, has a new type of AC induction motor that has PM brushless power density and efficiency, without PM (permanent magnets).

They have a 500hp AC motor that weights 147 lbs. Apparently, it uses magnetic resonance; I think i read that it pulses the motor and the motor self resonates at it's own frequency and creates a pure sine wave.

Anyways, this would mean really cheap electric motors for RC...

The power density allows 1500 watt motor for RC, and would weight 270 grams. They thing about this is that they would be alot cheaper, and more reliable. The controllers would be alot cheaper (simpler) also. The motor tech is rated 92% peak efficiency, 89% full load; the controller is 98% efficient also.

Just thought i'd show you another neat technology.

[crazyjr]

If they could make them in our size we could really test them

[zeropointbug]

Well, thats the thing. It's only a matter of time. Heck you, me, or Joe could start a company to make them for RC...

[Serum]

Cool.

I made a magnet-less speakers, using a speaker that didn't used a magnet, made two windings, working in opposite phase to make the voicecoil move.

I find it hard to believe though that it's about the same efficiency than a parmanent magnet type, because the magnets nowadays are unbelievable strong and this is 'free energy' I'll dig into it a bit deeper when i get back from work. If it is the case; nice piece of engineering.


They won't have got as much torque in a little can such as an RC motor with a permanent magnet though.

[zeropointbug]

Yah, it's very nice piece of engineering. I would rather have it than a neo magnet motor. So simple and durable. All there is would be an aluminum or copper rotor (copper would be smaller obviously and more efficient)

And just the way the motor works, the controller does not have to be that complicated. Basically just variable frequency, and not the specific timing of switching polarities 6 times a rotation. The AC Induction use magnetic slip to create torque, the more 'magnetic slip' the more torque, meaning that the bigger the difference in speed vs. frequency applied the larger the torque will be created. The Rasertech induction, you can use either standard method or their enhanced method which creates higher efficiency, and higher power. Their method, if i'm not mistaken pulses the motor, the motor then self resonates (because of capacitance coupled in series with the motor windings) at it's natural frequency, creating pure sine wave AT the motor.

They had their 147lb. motor creating 500hp, and 550nm (420ft/lbs) of torque for over a minute, thats on air cooling. Imagine liquid cooling...

Who knows, maybe pretty soon we attach battery power directly up to motor, and just give motor a signal to change speed/torque, etc. :027:

serum- Why do you say it wouldn't put out the torque of a brushless motor?

[zeropointbug]

http://www.rasertech.com/tech_p-2.html That's the motor

http://www.rasertech.com/news_report_dyno.html Video of Dyno test

[Serum]

Thanks for the links! makes searching a bit easier.. :p

to answer your question;
Because of the permanent magnets that are missing.

As you can see; they claim a 92 percent eff. with a star, that star indicates that that efficiency is calculated (in which they admit that they didn't took all the variables in their calculating, and it will probably be lower) A proper brushless motor does a 94 eff at full load.

Now in terms of power;

this is impressive! a 67 kg motor producing over 500 bhp.

Now a little weird but understandable theory;

67 kg, that is 67/1.6= 41.9 Lehner 3080 motors, which are capable of doing 11kW per piece. As you know; the bigger the motor, the more efficient it becomes. and the better the weight/produced power ratio becomes.

Knowing this, 42 LMT3080 motors produce 462kW (630 bhp)

The point is; nothing beats brushless, here are some other facts you might like on the 42 LMT3080 motors;

Torque; (weight/torque ratio)

1 Lehner 3080 produces 7.4 N/m of torque at 42000 rpm. (94.6 percent eff. at this load) (Reduced with a gearbox to 6500 rpm, that would be a 6.46 factor) 6.46*42*7.4=2007N/m@6500 rpm of torque per 67 kg motor.

Not bad either, right? :017:

Considering it are all loose motors

[coolhandcountry]

Does that mean if use enough 3080s hooked to a rear car. it would spin wheels like no tomorrow.

[Serum]

Yeah, in other words... LOL

[zeropointbug]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37Aoy7KaL4A

Here is a link to my favorite car, the electric X1 car. Uses the Ariel Atom chassis. 0-60mph in 3 secs

Second favorite car, http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1 Tesla Roadster, 0-60mph in 4 secs

Ya, thats true the bigger the motor the more efficient, it's more that uncontrolled variables, slightly though. Ya, so far these brushless motors are the most efficient around. Are you sure the Lehners are rated 94% at full load? This doesn't seem right.

I wouldn't really care if the motor is a little larger (Symetron), but the entire system would, I don't think it's to extreme saying it would cost 1/2 the cost of a brushless system. Along with higher reliability, probably higher max rpm's (not that brushless isn't reliable:027: ), the controllers would be more efficient though; this is a huge plus, which makes for more flexibility in design/engineering.

Also, note worthy is that every percentile makes a big difference in the motor as far as the size and power (for a given size).

[nbcaznmaster]

omg...teh farraris GOT OWNED lol, love that vid!

[zeropointbug]

Pretty cool huh, the Wright Speed X1 uses a standard AC Induction motor (made by AC Propulsion), has 220nm of torque from 0-6000rpm (flat), a max rpm of 15,000 rpm, 230hp, 150lbs. The Tesla Roadster also uses a similar motor (roomer has it its made by AC Propulsion).

I am currently designing an electric car (check signature), expected to weigh 550 lbs empty, moto-sport bike tires, fully independent un-equal length suspension arms, the motor will be a hybrid-synchronous motor br BRUSA (Swiss), inverter (controller) will be also be BRUSA, is the most efficient and power dense inverters on market, uses a new switching technology @ 24 KHz PWM(most use 6khz PWM) and 97% efficient. The car will accel. 0-60mph in 4 seconds (3 seconds possible). Be able to corner like a "son of a B$%#!" , and will all come back with an equivalent mileage (energy in gallon of gasoline) of 560mpg *highway.

Also, Serum, Zytek converted a Lotus Elise a couple of years ago and i think they put two 12 lbs motors in it @ 100hp EACH, 12lbs! That was brushless DC, it accel. in 4 seconds... better than the original Elise they converted.

[Serum]

Are you sure the Lehners are rated 94% at full load?

Well, yeah, otherwise i wouldn't post it...

Needless to mention that this very same 1.6 kg motor produces 40000 watts in peak of power on the shaft.. considering 42 of these motor can do a rough 2284 bhp..

that's from only 67 kg of motor.

This all is an attempt to try to make you clear why a motor with a magnet will be even stronger/more powerful

That X1 is made by a person who works for Silicone Valley.

[zeropointbug]

Yah, the X1 was built by Ian Wright, he used to work for Sisco Routers. He now started his own company.

How much is that motor you are talking about? For full scale EV's, brushless DC is far to expensive, it really is out of the question. Also to mention the less reliable, more sensitive, much higher costs in larger motors, more torque ripple, and less control of the motor. Induction does win out for full scale EV's.

But WOW, 2250hp from 67kg! That's mad, but i don't think you could do it in a larger motor, it would be too hard.

[Serum]

Torque of a bl motor is as flat as possible.