Motor on a reasonable budget
 

Hi all,
I just ordered a MMM for myself. That means I will be upgrading the wifes truck to my current brushless setup. Now time to figure out what I need to order for a motor. But first a little info for all.

Current setup
6s A123
BK warrior 12020 controller
Wanderer 9xl
misc other hop up.

My wife will be running NMHI packs 14.4 volts, I am hopeing with the right gearing I can pass the 9xl to her vehicle and get her more power, more top end and better run time then the stock brushed titans. Do we agree this is possible??? She liked her truck until she saw mine after I got the A123's in it.

Now with a MMM on the way I would like a motor that will run cool and effiecent. I am sticking with 6s1p A123's

I am fairly happy with the power and speed, More is always nice but not needed. However the Motor runs HOT (I have the RCM heatsink already)

So the real question is. How much difference will I notice with a Mega vs a Wanderer? I was thinkiing maybe the ACN 22/35/2, 22/45/1, or the 22/30/2f Roughly they are about $150.

I can afford a Nue but is is really that much better then a Mega. Like it is almost 2 times the cost. I could almost get a Mega for me and my Wife for the price of 1 NUE. So hear is the 100 buck question.

For the Money what motor is the best buy, for a basher that may show up for a race from time to time.

Highflier

Given that info, I'd go with the mega. Neus are great, but if its only bashing you are doing, the mega should be more than enough grunt and quality for your needs. For 6s A123, I'd say a motor in the 1800-2000kv range - 22/45 being my personal choice, though the short 22/35 still produces plenty of power I gather.

As for her-indoors, I think she will be very happy with the 9xl on 14.4v- just gear it for about 35mph according to the calculator. I would say it will perform better on a higher voltage, like 14 cells instead of 12, but Im sure she'll be more happy either way :yes:.

I say; go for two mega motors (same as neil said), and ditch that wanderer.

any lincs to the megas?

Wait 2 month maybe for the castle motor... Should be about the price of a mega

I thought about waiting but Then my MMM will just be sitting and the summer would ne 1/2 over by the time I get to it. I only go out side in the summer. I hate cold weather.

I like the idea of the lower KV. I would love to go 9s1p A123. Just don't have a controller that is up to the task. Maybe people will find out that the MMM can handle that kind of Voltage.

Not to be to critical but if the intro date is anything like the MMM It may be next year you see the post "Castle motor preorder now!"


Highflier

waiting is not one of my strong points, i need a motor now! lol

Go with a KB45-8XL. Killer motor from what I have seen and priced right as well.

How about buying a used Align XL (check Linc) and then getting a CC motor when available...

I was gonna get the align too, but from what I understand it isnt as responsive as a normal inrunner- slow to react to throttle changes.

http://www.megamotorusa.com/Shopping...s+ACn22+Series

You might want to take a look into Medusa motors "V2 AfterBurner Series". The 36-60 2000kv or the 1600kv would work great. Basically their Neu knockoffs- http://www.medusaproducts.com/motors/036-V2.htm

I thought the kb45 was basically a wonderer XL motor. I guess that is not true?

I am still leaning towards the Mega 22/45/XX but I am a lilttle mixed up on KV's
The 9xl is 17XX KV the mega's are as follows
2500 /1
2100 /1e
1300 /2

I don't want to have to put a fan in my truck so temp is a big issue. My first guess is to go with the /1e version.

My second thought is to learn more about the kb45. Maybe if I buy a overkill motor but gear it to just meet my wants.. I could get it to run cool enough. Plus at the price of the KB45. I could put one of the wife's truck if the 9xl does not work out on 14.4 volts.
Scratch that... KB does not have a higher KV then the Wanderer :(

Highflier

I second Takedown (for once, lol). The medusa V2 motors are looking very attractive. They are said to be very efficient, and similar in design to NEU. CHEAP TOO!!! Not to mention they are available in many different KV values. There's a good review at e-savage forums, and several users here have picked them up as well. I know it's going to be my next motor. :).



J.

The KB is a way bigger can than the feigao / wonderer XL motors. The KB has waaay more torque but it also has a 6mm shaft and a different bolt pattern than normal motors so a little bit of machine work is neccassary to make them work.

83gt, Yeah we dont agree often but hey you really cant go wrong with a Medusa. I plan to slap the 36-50 3300kv V2 in my rustler when my MM I just sent in gets back. Should be a sick combo on 3s-4s.

Well I just looked at the medusa site. The motor is about the same size as the Mega 22/45 series. The cost is much better, 20% cheaper.

Running 6s A123 is about 16volts under a moderate load. ( 20 volts No load)
Running 9s A123 is about 22 volts under a moderate load. ( 30 volts No load)

2000KV= 32000 RPM or 44000
1600KV= 25000 RPM or 35000

That said, I don't have a controller that will let me run 9s A123's I am secretly hoping that MMM will be tested to that level by some daring individual. For 6S I think the 2000KV would be better and for 9S I like the 1600KV.

#$%^&* I am so confused....

Whats more effient, The Mega or the Medusa?

Highflier

im also a bit stuck. ill be running 6 or 7s a123 (hopefully in 1p setup, is this enough for these huge motors? no one has been able to tell me this yet. having just over 500g of batteries is fine... having over 1kg is not.
im looking for something to run for 6+ minutes racing. which is why i thought going a higher voltage and gearing down = more efficiency.

on a scale of 1-100 in efficiency, what are the motors In YOUR opinion.

eg: neu 90
medusa 80
feigao 60
etc. just make up some numbers!

thanks guys for your help,
ryan

Ryan, I can help you a little bit.

I run a 9xl with 6s1p setup. Geared for about 45 MPH. The batteries are holding up just fine. I agree with you that 2p on the batteries is a lot of weight, not to mention a lot of space to make inside the truck. 6 min run times should be no problem. I just bash but I am getting 15 min easily. I selected 6S because I can charge that config in 8 min. or less. With 7s you will need either a really badass charger or be willing to wait a little longer for a charge. This is the reason that you see me looking to make the jump to 9S. More run time, Cooler running, More power, and still 8 min charge times.

To your question on the ranking of motors I would love to see some real facts, on that also. I am wondering if I will even be able to tell a difference between any of my current choices. The above posts make it sound like Medusa is the #2 motor as far as best goes.. and priced much better then several of the other lesser motors.

Highflier

thanks for that. im suprised your getting 15 minutes! i thought id struggle with even 5. do you use a lvc? i will buy 2 chargers, probably from the hyperion range, ive got a decent 30A supply, which will allow me to charge 2 packs @ 8-10A = 15 minute recharge, will my supply be powerful enough? (charge 4s and 3s)


im wondering if the 2 port charger would be the best option... its only 180W each side, but could probably hold the 10A on each side...

im using a modded antec power supply, with 2 12v outputs, rated at 19A each rail... if i only have one charger, i could only use one rail and possibly overload that one and cause it to blow. its running well, and i tested it for a short time and it took 22A of charger current (well i charged batteries @ a total of 22 amp and the chargers aint 100% efficient) so id guess close to 27A, before it dropped below 12v. the weird thing was, it brought the other rail down to about .5v above the loaded side, begging the question, are there really 2 seperate lines? and what would happen if i paralled the 2 outputs together... anyone tried this, as not even on computer forums mentions this!

sorry for hijacking,:whistle:
ryan!

Have you looked into Zip Charging. Your 300.00+ of chargers is = to my $20.00 setup when it comes to charging A123's. That said if you are going to use the chargers then I would go 7S.

Now back to topic. Tell us about the motors guys. Will I really be able to get away without the fan, Will I be able to tell the performance difference. What are the real world effiencies.

Highflier

zip charging hey? hows that work, ive seen it on youtube but not on 6s. please explain in here or pm.

im from the esavage gang. the people (kosta, possibly even bithed) have used this motor and were happy with it. i dont think its as good (from what ive heard) as a neu, but far far better than feigaos etc. 4 pole design will confuse some controllers, but MM will be fine. ill problably go with a neu created by castle... hopefully better than a feigao but cheap enough. id like to see them up against the REAL neus. if they are only slightly less efficient ill go with them :)
ryan

zip charging is simply charging through a long wire directly from the power source to the battery. It relies on the fact that there is resistance in the wire to limit the current somewhat. To me, it's just too unreliable as the charge current would depend on the voltage of the power source, the voltage of the battery, and the gauge/length of the wire. In any case, the supply voltage has to be higher than the battery voltage. So, for 6s A123s, you'd need at least 22-23v. But if it's too high, the charge current will skyrocket as well. Best to just use a charger IMO.

Oh, and I would not do this on ANY lithium battery except A123s as they are much more tolerant.

Ok to be honest I built a couple of DIY 3s cutoff's Then I built all my packs into 3s1p setups. I then charge 2 or 3 of the packs at a time. When I run my rc truck I just use a Y connector and make 2 of the 3s packs in a single 6s pack. I use a deep cycle battery as the power source. Charging starts off at about 18 Amps each. I.E. 36 amps. It quickly tappers down to 12 amps and then slowly drops from there. Batteries barely get warm.

To answer a earlier question. I do not use a LVC. When the truck slows down I know it is almost time to charge them. Unlike Lipo's you can run these suckers way down. I have run it to a dead stop. But for the most part I stop when it is no longer fast enough to be fun.

I have about $10.00 into each charger. Talk about good deal!

I also lengthen the wire so that charging starts at about 8 amp and then charge using a PC power supply as a source. Of course this is what I do at home when I have plenty of time.

So unhijack. Will the Medusa 36-60 1600 KV be able to offer better power and speed then the wanderer 9xl on 6S1p



Highflier

PS. NEVER EVER use this method on LIPO. But I disagree with BrianG it is a awesome method. Brian have you seen the DIY thread on the cutoff in RCgroups. Thats what really made this method work so well. No more monitoring of the charging. Just start it and walk away. When LED goes out Battery is charged. I used my astro watt meter in line to monitor first few charges. If not in use for anything else I still use it but just to see how many AH the charge took.

hmm. id love a link to that guide!
so i can use my pc power supply, and use metres of cable to limit like that? id want a 10A charge rate max, but with only 12v, but would it be possible to charge 3s via that, or would it charge it too much, over 4v... id need a cutoff. a link would be great, as i could test it out before buying the chargers!

ryan

I have used computer P/S to charge 3s packs. I use a longer cable to try and hold the starting charge to 8 amps. My supplies are rated to 10 AMPS. I use this cutoff device, With both deepcuycle and P/S as input source. The only difference is I use about 5' less wire when I charge from the Deep cycle.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...highlight=A123

Highflier