Which Lehner
 

I'm working on a buggy conversion and have already bought a Feigao 7XL. The thing is that I just came into some disposable money and would like to get into a better motor. Since I think that 4S lipo should be enough for a buggy on a track, I'll likely be running a Mamba Max controller, I figure that a two pole motor would be the best way to go. I'd like to get into a Lehner.

I'm figuring about a 2200kv motor, so which would better serve my purpose, a 1930 9, or a 1940 7?

Considerations are heat and runtime.

the 1940/7t will be a good motor for your buggy.

I'd second that. Hard to argue against the 1940.

Otherwise consider the Neu. Most are having good luck with it. A few have some cogging issues. I'll post my experiences with the NUE/MM as soon as I can get the truck reassembled!

Another choice would a be a 1950 6T.. would have more torque.. but a 1940 is plenty.

For a truck that light I don't think a 1950 makes sense. The 1940 would be ideal. A 1930 would work too.

Lower Kv, higher amp draw, heavier motor.

I have a 1940/7 and it is PLENTY of motor for a buggy. Its plenty of motor for a Monster Truck or a truggy too. So far its my favorite motor. Its powerful, runs cool and it will run on just about any brushless controller available.

Ive never tryed a 1930, but Mike told me that he at one time ran an emaxx on a 1930 and it was really quick. The smaller motors spool up faster so they feel really snappy.

Is there any reason why a 1930 wouldn't be able to do the job? Will it run hot?

From all I've heard the 1930 should do a nice job. It works well in lighter vehicals!

CC says that soon they will have the software update that will cure the cogging issues wiht the Neu, so if you are interested in them you may want to wait a bit and see if this pans out. If they fix it 100% then I would go with a Neu.

Nothing wrong with a Lehner though :)

Or a Pletty :)

REALLY? How soon can we expect it???

That would be awesome!!!!!!!!! :027: :027: :027:

The NEU 1515 or 1512 would be a perfect combo!

no one knows... they wont tell us either..

and what kind of buggy did u convert?

I converted a Sportwerks Turmoil. I wanted to do an XB8 or Eight, but my LHS stocks all of the parts for the Turmoil, and I'm not a great driver by any means. My Turmoil does well enough for me.

OK, I've also been considering the Neu. I've had a bit of experience with the Mamba Max systems, but the whole 1/8 (large) scale thing has been confusing to me. As I said, I want to use the MM controller because it is super user friendly and it's really inexpensive. I just don't want to push it too hard and I think I'll already be on the edge with the 7XL that I ordered. I'd imagine that a Lehner 1940/7 is going to put a similar strain on the ESC, current wise. That's why I'm hoping for some confirmation about the 1930 in a buggy in a race application. If it is similar to the L can Feigaos in terms of specs, then it will draw far less current than the larger can motors with similar kv ratings. To tell the truth, I'm kind of already regretting my ordering the 7XL, even though I haven't even received it yet. I'm starting to think that the 7XL is going to be over kill in an 8 lb. buggy on 4S lipo.

I'd really like to use a 1930 class motor as it will (as far as I understand) have about a 30A lower max amp draw than the 1940 class motors. For that matter, I'd like to be able to go with a 1512 rather than a 1515, for the same reasons.

I was really hoping to hear from some guys that are actually running one of these motors in a race environment to get some feedback. I've gotten so much mixed information from people running stuff in buggies and trucks that I'm having a hard time making heads or tails of the info.

I was also leaning more toward the Lehner because it is a two pole motor. I understand that the four pole motors put alot more strain on the ESC, which I'm trying to avoid.

Can anyone say in black and white whether the 1930 (or L, or 1512) motor is just right for a buggy or will it be on the limits of the motor to run it in that application?

I vote 1950...if you are dropping the cash might as well go for the big one :017:

i agree with bp

Can't have too many motors IMHO...I have over a dozen if you count my airplane motors :005:


pinolelst

You know what, I can't even say for certain if I think the 1512 or 1515 is better for a buggy. I really haven't done the right kind of testing back-to-back with both motors. And I don't know anyone else that even has both motors in a similar kv like I do. When racing season is here I hope to learn soem more about them. I have the 1512 in a buggy and a 1515 in a truggy... with 12000mah packs.

I don't know which motor would run cooler in a long race, or which one would help keep the esc cooler. I believe if you use the help of a fan, it doesn't matter. Both my vehicles seem to be good enough in performance and temps.

I did start using fans most of the time in my cars so take that into consideration. I ran the truggy for +30minutes nonstop and checked the temps several times during the and both motor and esc ran in the ballpark of 160*, not bad imo. Without the fans I would guess temps would jump to like 180* but that's acceptable for a long run w/o fans, imo.

I have run BL systems much hotter than that before.... my Emaxx/Hacker used to run 180-190 motor and 200 esc... and my SS5800 XX4 esc ran 200-220 at the end of a hard race.

Ah geez, I think that I might be overthinking this whole thing. I just don't want to wind up dumping a grand on motors trying to find the one I want, but it looks like I'll be dumping at least $500 anyway. I want one motor for the track, around 2200 kv, and one for parking lot bashing/racing, looking at the 1512 2600kv for this.

I suppose that going with the 1515 1Y or the 1512 2.5D should be good for the track. I'd like to be able to get by with just stock three sizes of pinions; 12, 14, and 16. What about the 2600 or 2700 kv models? I'd imagine that I'd be able to make the same speeds of the higher kv motors by gearing up. I just hope that I don't have too much of a cogging problem with the MM controller.

BTW, what sold me on the Neu was the increased efficiency when running at partial throttle, which is usually where I am on our track most of the time.

I'm getting really close to pulling the paypal trigger, AGAIN. Now, what do I do with this Feigao 7XL when it gets here? LOL.

Before you go looking at two motors.... tell us how fast you need to be for the parking lot? You might be surprised how crazy fast you could make your "race" setup by dropping in a big pinion. That's what I do :)

I like the 2000 and 2200 kv motor choices there. But I have wondered about the 2600kv 1512... it could be geared lower and still run well??? Theoreticly, you would get about the same speed with the 2600kv geared 10/46 as I get with my 1900kv geared 14/46. Seriously I think both methods will work well. Which one is "better" is the $64,000 question. I couldn't get an answer when I was looking to buy... and really there still isn't one.

For most people I would recomend the 1512 2.5D, but for you the 2D may be "rgiht"... it's too bad there isn't like a 2200-2400 option in the 1512.

For a 1515, I think the 1Y 2200kv is a nice choice. That's probably a good motor for you since you are after a little more top end on the track. You should hit about 40mph at 14/46, and we are talking a legit 50mph at 18/46.

I feel your pain dude... I did this last year.

As for the cogging, CC is promising that it will not be a problem with the up-coming software. :drool:

The funny thing is, a few years ago when I was thinking about doing a BL 1/8... it seemed that the biggest challenge was going to be getting the gearing right. I thought that the typical nitro 13/46 was way too tall... that something like the "slipperential" or a big ass center gear and/or "truck" diffs is what I figured would be needed to make it work right.

I thought that a BL would have to operate at a higher rpm than a nitro motor...

Now I sit here with a buggy... not geared 10/56 or something... but actually geared taller than a nitro for racing, and way taller than any nitro when I want to have some real fun.

glassdoctor,

I really can't put into words the amount of help you have been. My ignorance is driving me crazy. I am not new to brushless. I was the first one out at my track with a brushless setup. I had to do some fast talking so that they'd let me run it, but they did and now I'm doing more talking about running my 1/8 scale buggy. Some guys looked interested and others looked worried. LOL. 10th scale was easy. All I could fit into the truck and still have it behave right was either 2S Lipo or a six cell pack. Now that the battery options have opened up, things have gotten really complicated.

How fast do I want to go? 200 mph. What would I settle for? I'd love to do 60, just to see the faces on the Jato guys. I could probably live with 50. I wouldn't win too many races, but it would put on a good show. Besides, my T4 is what I have for 60+. Although I did just crash it AGAIN. Darned right rear wheel peeled off and flipped the truck. Skidded forever until a post stopped it for me. Took off the whole left side. That mamba 7700 on 3S is wicked.

Anyway, I'm thinking that going with the 1515/1Y is going to be it. That should be perfect for my track. Besides, I found some specs on the Neu motors and it looks like the 1515 is a bit more efficient than the 1512 and unless I read something wrong, the 1515 1Y pulls fewer amps than the 1512 2600kv motor.

At this point, and I'm going back and forth in my mind, it's between the 1512 2d (2600 kv for ~38,000 @ 14.8v) or the 1515 1Y (2200 kv for ~32,000 @14.8v). If I think about it (and it hurts), it is with the realm of possibility that the 1512 will be undergeared for the track and will run hot. On the other hand, I could probably gear up the 1515 to be just as fast as the 1512. If the ESC overheats it will thermal and protect itself. I guess the big question is (or is it?) where do I want to be topping out? 38K or 32K rpms. Either way, the motor is going to be turning far fewer than the 60,000 rpm limit as published by Neu and both will be within the efficiency range. Which is better, the bottom of the efficiency range or the top? And...on another note, I have to assume that the 1515 will have a bit more torque than the 1512, but do I need it with a buggy that will never hit over 9 lbs even sopping wet with mud?

BTW, with regard to your last post. When I first started toying with the idea of an electric buggy, I was trying to find a motor/battery combination that would mimic the performance/operation of a nitro setup. I wanted a motor that turned 40,000 rpm with a 13T or 14T pinion on it.

The guys at my track run engines that are "rated" as turning ~40,000 rpm when tuned to peak performance. They are the guys I want to outrun. Ya see, once again, when I put it into those terms, that 1512 2d is looking mighty good. I just don't want to be running a 10T pinion, spacing might become a problem.

altho its fun to kill everyone in a race, i think u should set up ur buggy for the track... thats where it can really shine... and like u said race with the t4 and rce o the track with the buggy imo

but if its setup right it will do bolth, so u need to decide... i would use the motor with more torque for more gearing options and more cells can be added

I just re-read the Neu specs and it seems that the 1512 2d and the 1515 1Y have similar specs. Same resistance rating, and about the same current draw at 10v. The 1515 is just a tad longer and heavier. I suppose that going with the motor with more torque would make sense since I would have broader gearing options. I just hope that it wouldn't be undergeared when on the track.

I think the 2200kv and 12,14,16 pinions would give you a good range to work with. 16/46 would be stupid fast... maybe too fast for racing if that's possible :)
A really fast nitro might top out near the same speed, mid 40's... but you will acclerate so much harder it won't be funny.

I think the finned can Neus start to rub on the diff cups with an 11T pinion... or maybe a 12T, I can't remember. But if it does, just file the first fin and it's all good. I would guess even a 10T could work... I ran a 10T with a Hacker C50 fat can...

1940 is my choice too. The 1950 is a torque monster. the buggies don´t need that. They can handle it, but they simple don´t need it. search for Viruss his HB lightning with the 1930. it does wheelies at 50% speed..

How much more do you need. Too bad the 1930 heats up quite fast.

glassdoctor,

I'm thinking the same thing. I'd rather have the reasonable pinion range, rather than having to run really small pinions to gear down (or is it up?).

Serum,

I went and checked out Virus' thread. His was heating up, but he had good batt and esc temps. Wouldn't the motor heating up like that possibly indicate undergearing? He's also running the 2600 kv, which may be too low of a wind for a truck. I'm going to be running a buggy with much smaller tires. I'm wondering what his results would have been if he had been running a 2200 kv motor with a larger pinion. It also appears that the stadium truck weighs at least 1.5 lbs more than my buggy does.

I've gotta tell ya, I really liked that performance. Wouldn't the motor's heating up indicate undergearing? I mean, if it was overgeared, wouldn't the esc have heated up and thermalled? The motor was running twice as hot as the esc. I think he was running 12/44 gearing on the truck tires. I'll be running 14/46 on buggy tires.

OK, I don't know if any correlations can be made between the specs of the Neu 1515 and the LMT 1940, or the Neu 1512 and the LMT 1930, but going by the Neu specs...the 1515 (2200 kv) is rated at a max current draw of 100A and the 1512 (2600 kv) is rated at a max current draw of 135A. BTW, I'm kind of leaning toward the Neu now because it's made in the USA. I don't like to have to do overseas warranty (or does Mike handle that?). For that matter, even if Mike does handle it, it's still overseas and could take a LONG time.

It's still a toss up between the 1515 2200 kv and the 1512 2600 kv. I just don't think that the 1512 2000 kv is going to give me what I want. I'd like the motor to at least break the 30,000 rpm barrier. Doesn't it have to in order to be in the "efficiency" zone?

Aangel,

I just bought the MM and the 1515/1Y. I think it's a great combo. It is still sitting on my workbench waiting for me to find time to install it. So I have no real hand-on experience to share with you yet.

I bought the combo based on performance, quality, and being US made.

If I was going to make an apples to apples comparison between the Neu and the Lehner, would they go like this?

Neu 1515 = Lehner 1940
Neu 1512 = Lehner 1930

...or would they go more like this

Neu 1515 = Lehner 1950
Neu 1512 = Lehner 1940


Procharged,

When you got that combo, were you in the least bit concerned about the cogging issues that some have had, when running the MM with the Neu motors? That's what really stopping me from pulling the trigger.

I'd really like to maximize runtime, but I'm not sure that going with the smaller motor of either make is going to save me that much. I may just wind up having a smaller motor that has to work harder than it should be.

I remember when I was a kid...my uncle had a motor home. It had a mopar 440 in it and was a gas guzzler. It was at the time when gas prices were just starting to climb. Anyway, we pulled the 440 out of it and dropped a 225 slant into it. He figured, smaller engine, better mpg. Well, it turned out that the sacrifice in performance wasn't worth the increased mileage, because it was negligible. I wound up spending two weekends on that project. One to do it and the other to reverse what we had done.

I'm really wondering if this would apply in my case or if going with the 1515/1940 would be overkill in a buggy.

BTW, does anyone know what the MM is unofficially spec'd for? Is it up to 4S or 5S Lipo? What sort of current draws can I expect it to handle?

Oh crap, something just dawned on me. The Lehner motors have a 4mm shaft. I don't, for now anyway, have a way to put a plastic spur on my center diff, so I was just going to run the hardened steel pinions. I don't think that the 4mm pinions are available in hardened steel, are they? That's another consideration. Would the larger motors cause more wear on my pinion/spur gears. I may very well be stuck using metal on metal gears.

Neu 1515 = Lehner 1940
Neu 1512 = Lehner 1930

I believe this to be correct. The Lehner 1940 & NEU 1515 are nearly the same length case. The NEU is slightly larger in diameter and offers slightly more torque and midrange power than the Lehner. Some can tell a difference, some can't from what I've heard.

Not worried about cogging. Several here have had great success with 4S & 5S on the MM/NEU combo. Also, Castle will be releasing updated software to address the 4-pole motor issues in the near future.

I think your good with either motor size 1515 or 1512 (1940 or 1930) With a lighter buggy 5-6 pounds the smaller motor should be perfect. If the buggy is 6-8 pounds the 1515 or 1940 would be the better call IMO.

The smaller motors are less torquey so traction can be improved and they are more "snappy or responsive" than the larger motors which can also be an advantage.

I went for torque since i have a 10# monster truck. My debate was 1940? 1950? or NEU 1515?

I chose the NEU because I like that it's made and serviced here and that the 4-pole motors make more torque (plus its black and has cooling fins. Also a bonus)

Pro.

What buggy are you doing? You can fit a Kyosho gear on most of them. Plastic is a very good idea... and it's way cheaper and easier than using hardened gears at $20+ a pop. Some have still destroyed the hardened ones with BL. I never ran a steel/steel gear.

I always forget about the 4mm thing with the Lehner. Hmmm score a point for Neu. Besides being the same as most other motors, the 5mm gears are much easier and cheaper to get.

And don't forget that with the Neu, you can use 5.5mm connectors.

Good point!

I'm just partial to the 5.5's. I cannot stand the quality of the 3.5mm connectors. They wear fast and have a low quality like to them.

The 5.5's have substance! They have a larger contact area and are stronger. i like them too. I'll be using them on my NEU when I install it.

Not to stay on the hi jack here, but Pro-very easy to install on the Neu too. Took me less than 5 min for all of them to install the males. Just make sure you scuff the inside of the connectors for a for sure connection! I tipped my motor upside down with all three connectors loosely so the wires were pushing into the connectors and soldered each one in a row.

Thanks Troy.

This is going into a Sportwerks Turmoil. I'm figuring that it's going to fall into the 8-9 lb category when all is said and done. I'm doing away with the mechanical brakes and am going with a single maxamps 4S2P 6Ah battery pack.

With the 4mm shaft diameter of the Lehners, I think that the Neu is a no brainer for me. Just about all of the helicopter sites sell module 1.0 5mm gears. And they can be had very cheaply. Heck, if a plain ole steel pinion lasts me a day of running, I'll be satisfied.

As for the spur, I did find a Kyosho gear that fits the screw pattern, but it doesn't match up in terms of everything else, like the accomodation for the bearings, etc. I'll have to keep looking or just go with another diff that is compatible with the Kyosho spur gears. Right now, I'm just anxious to get the whole thing up and running.

Since I've settled on the Neu motor, I suppose the final question is...1512 or 1515? The 1512 would have less torque, but that might not be a bad thing on a dirt track, as long as it still has sufficient torque to clear the triple that follows that particular turn. Quite frankly, I like the idea that the 1512 is around $40 less expensive than the 1515. This project is getting expensive. I just dropped $600 in batteries and that doesn't include the extra balancer and charger that I got so that I could have two charging at once. I don't like to wait. I haven't even gotten into what I've spent on 7075 stock to make sure that I'd have everything that I needed. If I didn't already have the MM controller, I wouldn't even be thinking about this motor.

On the other hand, at this point, $40 is just another drop in the bucket. :)

So...I'm hoping to be able to answer the $64,000 question. Is the 1515 overkill? Should I just go with the 1512? If I go with the 2000kv version, my max rpms will be under 30,000. Is that optimal for efficiency? Would going with the 1515 at 2200 rpm be better just for the sake of being in that rpm zone?

Geez, this just seems like a vicious circle.

BTW, it is nice having a good soldering iron/station. I use a Metcal MX500. With a 700 degree broad chisel tip, it makes short work of just about anything. I don't usually get cold solder joints with this thing.

My vote is for the 1515/1Y.

Better Kv for use with the 4s2p combo. Enough torque to do what you need and the rest you can tweak in the MM software.

It won't last 40 min IMO.

Mike may be able to help you out with an adaptor of some sort if needed. Not too familiar with buggies and truggies.



2200 RPM would give you better efficiency I would think.