video: 10sA123 Buggy with eagletree inserts
 

So finally this weekend i found some time and made a video of my brushless buggy. In order to make this video more interesting for everyone i synced it with the eagletree data. 1580 Watt max on this run.

Chassis: Crono S6SL
Motor: Neu 1512 2Y
ESC: Jazz 55-10-32
Batts: 10s1p A123 (33v, 2300mAh)
Weight: 8.82lbs

Download video here. (70MB, runtime: 6m06s, windows Media 9)

this a still from the video
http://www.braintrust.at/2007/ds/rc/...videostill.jpg

enjoy

now that's a video! I love that you showed all the run data, too bad you don't have a bigger area to bash

Nice the eagle tree data is impressive.

I really enjoyed viewing the data as you drove. Really added to the video. If you only had a bigger bash spot... that would be ideal. Great video none-the-less.

That's awesome w/ the ET :intello:

Makes me excited for my in-process setup of a 2Y on 10S A123s as well. What was the max current draw? Look like it stayed under 45A for the most part. The temp never budged either.

awesome video dude..!!! I love the data...
Wow, I'm surprise it never drew more than 60 Amps... Cool... Must be because of the Higher voltage....
were the batteries hot after the run?

Thanks for the positive feedback.

@_paralyzed_ and jnev
This was the first time i drove in this area. As i live in the city, it's not so easy to find some space to bash especialy on a beautiful sunday afternoon. This was my second battery pack. I also shot some video on a big open concrete space with my first battery pack but forgot to hook up the mic ;-( That's why i choose this part of the video.

Usually i drive in an other spot during the week. On weekends this area is filled with familys enjoying their bbqs. So no way to drive there.

@Finnster
The highest Amp draw was 60A. I had 7 peaks above 50A. The rest stayed below 45A. Motor temperature was no issue at all. That is the beauty of a high volt system when setup right. Outside temperature was around 20 C (68 F). As i have the non finned Neu i use two small fans above the motor, so that temperatures remain safe during summer time. The highest recorded motor temperature with 30 C (90 F) ambient temperature was 50 C (122 F). Without fans temperature reached once 70 C (158 F). That is when i decided to use some fans. With 10s A123 the motor spins up to 45000rpm and thus can heat up.

@Aqwut
That's right. With 30v, 40A already translates to 1200W. And you won't need much more in a buggy. The batteries are only warm to the touch (same for the ESC) after a 13 to 18 minute run, as my average Amp draw is around 10A. In this run for instance the average Amp draw was 9.78A or an average of 290 Watts.

Very impressive indeed. I thought about putting my Jazz controller in the buggy I have, but one stopped working after I had it in my truck with 10S A123. It was my fault as the Jazz performed well with a 2 pole motor, but with the 6 pole 600L it stopped and is giving me a warning light. I'll see what is wrong with it and hope it gets going again.

That is so cool othello! Looks like it's a pretty powerful setup in the buggy, looks like it roughly 1200watts that it pulls.

How are you charging your pack? Balancing?

@lutach
Jazz Esc are tough little controllers. I had 2 motor failures (overheating and front bearing broke) and in both cases (massive Amp peaks) the ESC survived. I even drowned one while being active accidently and the next day it worked flawlessly. My jazz 80 did fine with my 8 Pole inrunner with RPM peaks of 40000 which was above its rated max rpm of 150000rpm with 2 pole motors. So i wonder what happened with yours ... a 6 pole motor should run fine unless you would rev it above 50000rpm. Well of course Amp draw could have been an issue since it (jazz 55) is designed for 65A surge currents. But i would expect the motor to cogg when drawing more then 65A. Hope you can fix it.

@zeropointbug
Yep ... there is more then enough power. At least more then the tyres can handle :smile:
My peak was around 1560watt. i had 7 peaks higher then 50A. The rest was below 45A. So yep ... between 1200 and 1400 Watt.

I ordered a Hyperion EOS1210 which should be at my place this week. First i used a regulated laboratory power supply which is able to handle 36V and 20A. After 1 month it gave up on me. In between i use a Robbe infinity 2 charger which has no A123 program. So i terminate charging manually at 36V. Balancing is no big issue with those cells, as they kind of balance themselves when charging. Safe terminating voltage is between 3.6v and 4.2v so i don't mind too much about balancing.

1500 watts peak, that's good, I am getting over 1500 watts from a 7s1p pack, which I was surprised!

Too bad about your regulated power supply... I am using a BK Precision programmable PS unit, very good quality, excellent price too!

I hope Mike can have the PowerJazz with the Jazz car software. I will problably send all my Kontroniks to see if they need software update and a few to get fixed.

Thats a neat video, kinda like watching F1 racing on tv with the telemetry data being flashed up as the car flies along; only F1 is boring, but that buggy was screaming.

I agree, F1 racing is pretty boring.... so little variables, too high of precision, it just makes for a lame experience. :mdr:

Unless they crash- F1 cars seem to explode rather incredibly, being made of so much CF, or the engines let go and turn the car into a 200mph fireball. So long as no-one gets hurt, it makes for exciting viewing.... **yes, Im evil**

So they are going to do car software? I been waiting on that:yes:

Mike from Kontronik said it should take 4-6 weeks and that's the last I heard from him. So it is possible if he said that.

cool
if they do it Castle will lose big time

I just finished a second (and last) video. Those scenes were shot on the same day as the scenes from the first video. This time i was driving on a big open concrete space. So nothing spectacular besides speed passes and a few small drifts. No brushless sound i'm afraid ... Mic was sort of offline, so only music.

video size: 46,6MB, duration: 2:26, windows media 9
click me to watch the video

Here is a still from the video:
http://www.braintrust.at/2007/ds/rc/...rete_still.jpg

enjoy

Really nice videos! :yipi:

I really envy that motortemp, thats impressive! Do think its because of the higher voltage? P=Ui.....

Very slick videos. Looks like the jazz controller works well in the vehicle mode. How good are the brakes and does it have a reverse lock out while braking before it goes into reverse? I was going to buy one, but would like some feedback from someone who has experience. Thanks

Very nice. Man I wish I could find an empty spot like that here in NJ. I will have some competition to show you when I'm done LOL.

@hakan_J
Voltage helps a lot with the right motor and gearing. Neu motors really are efficient and with the high voltage i only require between 40-60A to get 1200-1400 Watt to spool up the car to top speed. This motor has an efficiency of >90% and this is within 10-50A. And i use this motor right within its optimum efficiency level. That's why motor temperatures remain that low. On a typical run my average Amp draw is only 10A. That's around 300 Watt average. So the motor really does not break a sweat.

@lincpimp
Brakes are more then sufficient for a buggy. I can lock all 4 wheels when i want to, this is when the car drives above a certain speed. But when rolling slowly the breaks are weak (but i assume that is true for nearly every ESC). You can only go in reverse when the car has nearly stopped or is stopped. So you don't have to apply brakes to go in reverse. And you can't go to reverse when the car is still moving faster then crawling.

@lutach
The spot is sweet but i don't use it often as it is only good for high speed passes (and show off). During winter time this place is used to stock gravel which is used when roads are covered with snow. During summer time many guys use it to testdrive (wheelly) their motorbikes. And a few RC guys know this place also.

I'm looking forward to your project (and competition) and remember i'm only using a 13 tooth pinion. Looking at motor temps there is some headroom to gear it up some more :lol:

Here is what I'll be running:

BK 3695
Hacker ION-X motor
10S lipos

I have a solid center with 48T spur and I'll try a 16T just to see what will blow first LOL.

cool videos. its nice how you can see how the watts and temp changes when you are driving.

othelo,

Here are some pictures of your competition LOL.

Looks impressive ... so much batteries:lol:

Power will be amazing. Can't wait to see a video of this overpowered buggy and some Eagletree graphs.

Maybe you're aware of this guy @ TrueRC who runs his buggy with 12s lipos and a Neu 1912-1Y. Peaks without limitation @3500W and with between 1800-2000 Watts.

Those power levels are insane for a light buggy. I allready have trouble to get 1200-1600 Watt to the ground without excessive wheel spin.

My main goal with HV was a more efficient setup with temperatures in regions where i do not have to care about them any more. But along with HV also comes power :smile:

keep us uptodate with your project

Yes, that does look impressive. Makes me wonder where the servo, receiver, and ESC are gonna go though... Buggy bodies typically don't have much vertical clearance in front which limits placement choices. Truggy bodies have much more room.

Yes, I'm porra in that forum. I have another XTM that I will probably stuff my 1521 in it LOL. I will definitely keep you guys posted. I will post my pics there as well so he can see it LOL.

Everything is already laid out. Here is where they will go.

looks perfectly balanced to me. She should handle like a dream ...

Not too much work any more. So don't get us waiting too long.

I'm not sure if I should use the BK 3695 since it is limited to 42000rpm. I might get my Kontronik 55 out for some run time. I don't have an eagle tree, but I have a DPR-II-150. It does work ok, but some times the readings say one thing and the graph another.

What kv is your Ion-X motor? Is that a Hacker C50XL?

I don't know how the BK Esc would behave if you hit its RPM limit.

The Jazz is limited to 65A which corresponds to 2340 Watt @36V ... this should suffice. Maybe you'll have to cut the heatshrink right where the cooling plate sits to optimize heat transfer, when using the ESC up to its full potential. With 8s and an average of 10A my Jazz only gets warm to the touch (my cooling plate is not covered with heatshrink and i have a good airflow around the ESC when driving).

The ION-X is either a 13XL or a 15XL. The BK acts like a car when it hits the rev or speed limiter, but in a faster pace like it is cogging. My Jazz has a heat sink on top of the cooling plate. It should be a lot of fun LOL.

The odd thing Othello;

In the first vid, your batteries gave you a 29V@ 35A load, while the 2nd one gave you a 27V@35A load. Are this different batteries?

About these A123 cells; i just read a guy here in Holland is charging his 13S2P pack at 1000watts.. How nice..

That's one hell of a charger..
I know the new Hyperion EOS can put out 500watts on 6S and you can link two of them together... this is what that dude must be doing..

Nope!
it's one charger..

capable of doing 1200watts.

Why does all the good stuff always accross the pond....
That's awesome.. i gotta get me one for Christmas.. Thanks Serum..

Yeah baby.. charge that packs in 9 minutes..

You only need two packs and that charger and you can run all day..

Mind you; it uses 230V +/- 10 percent. Simple ask them for a 110V version.. :)