1/6th Scale Savage Conversion

[Finnster]

I've been looking to do a larger scale conv of my Sav XL, basically a Sav XXL. :)
Here's how it sits now:


Watching some of the recent threads here, as well as the Sav/baja conversions has sharpened my thinking.
Here's what I'm looking to do:

Monster Truck style, keep my 4 wheel steering, extend wheelbase to ~520mm (vs 390,) center diff w. slipperential, high voltage 8-10S w. my 1521 2y. It will take a while to finish this whole thing, so hopefully CC will have the MMMXL out by then.

So far I have most the parts I need, with a few others already for fun. I'm going to go w/ the FLM bulkheads I have w/ BP diffs. I know the draw backs, but going to run them. Also have FLM towers w/ LST shocks on my current XL. The setup is good, but heavy. Plus the shock shafts for the LSTs tend to break at the thread alot. Had these before BB flux shocks came out, so may explore better shock options.



Plan to mount CD to a skidplate. Here's one from FLM I intended for my XL before I decided to go XXL. for reference. Will likely do my own, so no fancy machining :(



The wheelbase is longer than the XL, but shorter than the baja (590mm.) Basically I'm going for a FG/Redcat Rampage size. Been really digging the Monster Beetle look:



But the MT option is always cool too:



Also, I've been looking to extend the arms out, but the only option I've ever seen was the alu arms from FLM. Eh, want to stay plastic and easily replaceable. I was shown a thread recently of someone who fit CRT X2 arms onto the savage. Cool. Will explore option. Here's a comparison of the arms from my Hyper ST. Over 3/4" gain ea side. Very strong arms (busted many sav ones) bit the arms are too close to fit.
Plus, these bodies are quite wide, so I may need the wheels out as much as I can to fit properly. already have the wheel extenders as well as 1/2 offset 40series wheels. Width right now is ~435mm, the monster beetle below is 520, and those wheels are close to the body.



One trouble will be to find arms where I can have str knuckles F&R. I'm only looking at using R arms now, but most Str knuckes I see build in a lot of caster. Great for F, but will screw up the R, esp as the knuckles would be reversed in the rear, leading to positive camber. Eh... may be a pita to do this and 4ws.
Another benefit would be to use truggy axles instead of the Sav dogbones. I would be giving up a bit of width by losing the wheel extenders, but would still gain more w/ the arms. I saw ext wheel hex hubs for my hyper ST (upto 12mm) so that's always an option if needed.

Looking to go 1/8" alu. for the custom TVPs. What's the thoughts on 6061 vs 7075 for TVPs? Obviously the 7075 is stronger, but is it too hard to machine? Prolly go this way anyway.

[brushlessboy16]

looks like a great start! good choice of parts. MMMxl is on the way I saw it in person at the bash, should have went :)

[magman]

looks like you have a good idea where your truck is headed. I have always wanted to take a truggy extend it say 4-6" and make a 1/6 scale. Like you one of my concerns was finding the right length arms and extenders that would fit and bring it to scale. I still may do a conversion one day

[Bondonutz]

I've ben driving my newly finished 1/5 scale, yeah it's pretty awesome but with that long wheel base steering really sucks. 4 wheel steering should be pretty cool Fin !!!

[Finnster]

Originally Posted by brushlessboy16

looks like a great start! good choice of parts. MMMxl is on the way I saw it in person at the bash, should have went :)

I would have liked to go. First one I missed since 2007. I already had plans that w/e for family stuff, and honestly, I haven't been able to drive RCs all summer. I have a 4 yo, a 1yo and they take all my time and money, plus my wife and I have been very busy with our jobs as well. Its been hard just to keep the house in order, let alone get any playtime.
I'm not even sure if my lipos are still any good. lol

FWIW, I had wanted to get something done before the bash. My new goal is to have it done before the next one. :)

Originally Posted by Bondonutz

I've ben driving my newly finished 1/5 scale, yeah it's pretty awesome but with that long wheel base steering really sucks. 4 wheel steering should be pretty cool Fin !!!

Thanks bro. That truck looks great, but I can imagine it turns like a tractor tho. I know my XL was hard to get used to even after driving truggies, muggies and revos and such.

Here's a crappy vid of the 4WS in action. Wanted to get around to do another one, but really haven't got to drive it much. I sold the MGM off in the spring. It was a bit limited in that big truck too with temps. I think I had old 10C TrueRc lipos in it too. It had some decent power, but nowhere near what the 1521 could put out.

I'd like to go to 2x5S 3300 packs or so when I get it done, with a max speed of ~45mph and loads of TQ. More of a groundpounder than a speed demon.

EDIT: WTF, it isn't embedding right, here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YmEnagHqX4

[edit2] fixed.. didn't like the new wider format...



[YOUTUBE]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3YmEnagHqX4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3YmEnagHqX4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]

[redshift]

I'd go with 6061 Finn, you guys put too much emphasis on the whole '61 vs. '75 debate sometimes I think. That choice is more important in other parts, not so much chassis material tho.

The 4 wheel steering might be a necessity to regain the steering, but I wonder if the best route would be to have a programmable servo that could have the rear EPA reduced. You probably remember Honda doing this with some production models, and they had the rear steer in proportion to the front. This would minimize the 'forklift' swing effect enough that your rear camber wouldn't be much of an issue. Just a theory, I am not to be held accountable if it's wrong

With the parts you have I wonder if maybe you could pull something other than a 'Savage' out of your bag of tricks? The savvy bulks are much more easily adaptable to different chassis types/layouts than say... LST diffs. So that's a big advantage. Not sure what to tell you about shocks, we need something sized between LST and Maxx shocks -diameter wise, for many of these custom builds, I haven't managed to find anything yet. The LST & Mug shocks were made more for the 'shock value' (yes, pun intended) than for any actual need for units that big. Marketing in my eyes, not much else. The main reason I opted out of those on my new build was weight/bulk/tallness (vulnerability to hits). And I believe the Savvy shocks are just foolishly long, making them more susceptible to damage. Never owned a Sav, so that's just my own ignorant pov on those.

You have options, no doubt about that!

[redshift]

PS- I like the Bug look personally.

[sikeston34m]

Originally Posted by brushlessboy16

looks like a great start! good choice of parts. MMMxl is on the way I saw it in person at the bash, should have went :)

There's been a MMMXL sighting?

You seen this with your own two eyes?

[bryan]

Originally Posted by sikeston34m

there's been a mmmxl sighting?

You seen this with your own two eyes?

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Finnster]

Originally Posted by bryan

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Who had it? Chris or Mike? Chris always has the low down...

[Finnster]

Originally Posted by redshift

PS- I like the Bug look personally.

Thanks for the tips. I may just go with the 6061 then. I was pondering cutting new shock towers, so maybe ill reserve 7075 for that.

I dont think its going to end up anywhere near yours. All I have to work with is a bandsaw, drillpress, files and a limited amt of skill. Ill do best tho

[Jahay]

great looking project!!! You obovisouly know all the pros and cons of using the products you have chosen!!!! Nice1!

regards to finding an ideal suspension.... have you considered the baja front shocks for a savage... they are quite stiff and not good on a normal savy, but with the extra weight you are putting on the truck, these may be one you need??? LST Shocks are big but with weak shock shafts, whats the point... These are like BP Bigbore shocks!!!! I was going to put these on my truck, but they are quite heavy shocks....



Also good luck with the Lower A arm decision.. I have always wanted to extend the arms but never found a suitable drive shaft alternative that offered the strength of the stock SHD Dog bones. So i stayed away... Keep us posted on how this develops!

Gd Luck!

MMMHVXL FTW!!!! when is it getting here!!! ARGHH!!!

[Finnster]

I was thinking about the baja shocks, but I don't know much about them, and needed to look into the sizing. I've only seen them on the baja, where they look kinda small, but thats only compared to a very large truck.

My other thought was some 16mm truggy shocks.

I'm thinking if I go with a truggy arm, I can match a truggy axle. Altho smaller diameter, they've always seemed very tough and durable. I think the stock hpi gear is a bit softer metal, and I've seen a bit disappointed in how quickly the cups and drive pins have worn.
Have not seen this on my trug, even tho its hard more runtime. I figure with a top shelf part, I can prob not lose any str, and may actually save a bit of weight.

I've been on vacation, so I haven't done anything as of yet. Think I'm going to order the alu soon, and try to get a cheap set of X2 arms off ebay. Was considering buying a whole truck if I can find a barely used one for cheap. I don't see the part auctions as I am used to. Most parts are BIN, and not so cheap. I was getting whole bags of parts (like whole F end sets) for a good price for my hyper. Not seeing those now.

I was adding up all I need, and to buy drivelines, arms, hinge pins (look to be 5mm, up from 4mm) hubs, hexes, knuckles and all, it might not be cheaper to buy a whole truck and part out the unused stuff. Saw a barely used one go for $150

[Finnster]

Ordered all my materials Sunday night from metalsonline.com. I have a lg sheet of 1/8" 6061 coming, some .25"/6.35mm 7075 for some possible towers (we'll see on this) several feet of 12.7mm nylon gs rod for a custom rollcage, as well as some 6061 tubing that will slip over it. Have some ideas for the mounting using the tubing.

The wheelbase I am planning on will be basically an increase equal to the diameter of one 40series MT wheel. IOW, take one of those mashers mounted as in the OP and move it out by one tire size. Not a radical increase, but a substantial increase none the less and I should be able to keep the truck in scale. The only big wildcard on this is the width of the bug body. Its quite wide compared to 1/8ths, so hopefully it look in scale and not have any potential rubbing issues. They are not cheap either @ $150 shipped.

[Finnster]

I recieved my package from onlinemetals.com, BUT... I did not recieve the 0.5" nylon rod, nor one of the 1/4" 7075 plates I ordered for some shock towers.

The rod is on backorder I guess, but they just f'd up not sending the other 7075 plate. Making the towers is going to be a big pain, so who knows if I will end up doing it, but I paid for the plate regardless.


In other news, I decided I'm going to go with Mugen arms for the arm extension. Thanks to Nard Cox for getting me the dimensions. I like this setup as it uses a pillow ball cront carrier that can easily be reversed to achieve the 4WS. Also, caster is set by offsetting the upper arms, rather than built into a C-hub design that is more common in truggies. Simply reversing steering arms in the rear yeilds positive caster. Not good.

The obsticles will be the upper arm arrangement and arm braces for the lower arms. I can make my own arm braces I think. Hopefully I can figure something out to get captured pins. The mugen upper arm will not fit in the sav bulkhead really. I will have to come up with something. Normally just using a tie rod would work, but the pillow ball setup needs something to screw into. Perhaps I can use a Sav adj upper arm, a tie rod and a coupler for the pillow ball? Maybe even a custom ext alu arm from FLM with threading for the pillow ball... IDK. Something will work.