60C really?

[jpoprock]

You know... I'm not going to pretend that I know much about Lipos. I know that Lipos are like boobies. The bigger the C rating the better!

I've never owned, nor plan on owning and MA batteries simply because they are just way too expensive. Are they over-rated? Maybe, but I'm too dumb to know for myself. All I know is that I can't afford them. And even if I could, I don't race, so to me the cost isn't justified either.

As far as MA being voted #1 on all the RC Mags.. well, that's true. But I sub to most RC Mag's, and every single electric vehicle is reviewed using MA batteries, both Lipo and otherwise. Is this because MA is their choice? Probl not. It's probably because MA is one of the few who give them all the best free packs they want, in exchange for them publicizing the fact that the testing was done with MA batteries. How's that for good advertising. It's smart too. So, people are more apt to associate the positive review of the blazing fast "whatever" with the name MaxAmps because those were the batteries used. That's pretty much advertising 101 right there.

You give me all the latest greatest Maxamp batteries that I need, and I'll drive around with Maxamps all over my Explorer,my RC's, and put it in every signature I have. OF COURSE the mag's LOOOOVE Maxamps! How can they not? And how can you blame them really? You feed me, and I'll feed you.

In the end, it's for the user to decide for themselves.

J

[tmaxxdaddy]

Geeze, I thought reading at the begining I was going to get some good information

Now..Not so much

[Finnster]

That's a pretty disappointing graph Brian, as well as a disappointing response from Austin. I guess I would be hard pressed to explain that as well, not that that is an excuse. That's unfortunate Austin has chosen to no longer participate in the discussion as the thread was for the most part was lively yet constructive. I must say such data and behavior does not inspire me to pay such a premium for Maxamps batteries. Such is the line between poor and foolish I guess.

For consideration Brian, here is a graph of my Neu 3S 2500 30C/60C batteries on my CRT.5. Please not that these were purchased in Jan 08, so comparable to the 1yr old models you have from MA.

As you can see, the batteries were holding approx 9.3V (3.1V/cell) at 85A draw (35C) and the highest output occurred towards the end of the pack where there was a 114A (~45C) discharge that yielded 8.9V. Please note that the pack was nearly empty, as the resting voltage was ~11.3V, so it represents a 2.4V (.8V/cell) drop. I'm not sure how a 60C discharge is determined however. This run was a considerable stress on the battery, but did not create any puffing or overheating.



To be fair, I don't know that I would advise running a pack so hard. I did run the pack even harder in some grass tests later on, managed to kill my lehner and the pack has seemed a bit flat ever since. Hence the need for accurate ratings. Theoretical burst ratings are fine and all, but do not help much in determining the performance or appropriateness of the battery for such an app.

Overall I highly recommend NeuEnergy lipos, and they can be had for really good prices if you care to look. They have been a bit more powerful than any zippies, but far better cell matched and constructed. You can buy nearly two Neu 4S 25C or 30C 5000 packs for the $250 the original MA pack is listed at.

Let me dig out a 4S zippy-h graph that replaced this system.

[Finnster]

Sorry I drew the graph so poorly, but basically we are looking at a max discharge of 90A (42C), and worst V drop to 13.3V (3.3V/cell), tho I don't think they are at the same time, but for now lets assume worst case and they do. These were purchased in May of 08, also last years chemistry and beyond their ratings. I still use these today. Very happy for $40.

[zeropointbug]

What also ridiculous is how they have runtime for their packs for the respective vehicle: (2) 2s 6500 packs in a BL e-revo will get 39 minutes runtime, ya, right.

Who else votes that Austin should cough up a pack or two for someone respected on this forum to test?

It will be the only thing that can put this thing to rest, is it not?

[_paralyzed_]

Give Lutach a pack, he'll test the bejeesus out of it and post vids.

[lincpimp]

Originally Posted by _paralyzed_

Bottom line: Business in America. It's the informed and motivated selling to the uninformed and nonmotivated. It's no different than Lincpimp buying used stuff low and selling high, just James isn't as greedy as MA, but hey, advertising is expensive. It is what it is and I'm glad I'm part of RCM, or the "Informed and Motivated", if you will............

Hell, I am greedy... Just not on this forum!!!

You are right, but selling stuff relies on the magic "value for money" perception. If you think you got a good deal, who is to say that you have not. Like I said earlier, maxamps lipos seem great after you replace some venom cardboard cased stick packs (these are as overpriced as maxamps products, 60 bucks for a 6 cell 4500 mah cardboard no-matched crap nimh pack???). So double the performance for double the price (maxamps 2s packs are around 120 bucks), sounds fair right? Now if you know you can get a zippy for about 45 bucks shipped that will perform as well as the MA pack, well not sounding so fair, right... We all remember $100 6 cell nimh matched cells... That really sounds out of the box compared to that zippy pack.

All about what you have to reference against... If you read the rc mags and get your info there, zippy does not even exist to you...

[Overdriven]

I saw this thread and waited for the lively comments, and then was shocked to see a MA rep. Then I got to about page 4 and was suprised this thread was still open. While I'm not saing the points raised weren't valid, I would've thought more restraint would've been enforced. But I can see reasons why they weren't enforced as much as I thought they would be. I know there's more than a few here who at the least feel they've "wasted" their money, but I hoped they would hold those sentiments back a little to keep him around till we dug deeper. Rememeber these guys are used to having mods who rely on their ad $ or do the moderating themselves. Still it wouldve been big of him to admit some shortcomings of previous products, legal ramifications be damned.

What I really hoped to see was more discussion about how their new tests are performed exactly, and what were the old one's. I think the new test is a step in the right direction, but does it use a load on the motor? Does it have varying throttle, how quick does it ramp up if it does, is it comparable to "nailing it" off the line in a 1/8. Bringing up the great experiences some have had, just makes them say "nope not going to change any minds here, I'm gone".

Personally, I might buy MA in the future, I'll spend the extra $ for the good stuff (zippy's never, have enerland now, I want some neu's or g3's). But only if they've proven themselves and are more open to answering questions about their products and showing data. That doesn't mean no failures, I'd buy another MMM V3 even though my 1st one flamed within 2 weeks and it seems there's a new post about another flamer at least every month. And there's alot less options in the HV ESC world than the lipo world.

I sincerely hope Austin comes back, and if he doesn't maybe we should invite him back. Because I believe this discusion needs to continue. Mostly because you'll never see it happen anywhere else. Just remember Austin, most of us are more knowledgable than the majority of other forums, and that we are also members of those other forums too.

[BrianG]

Some of the harsher posts have been edited out, but most of the thread has been left intact. Nothing was removed that states experiences and/or opinions based on experiences, which is the important thing.

What I don't get is how we are supposed to magically believe these new cells are "the thing". It's not like prior experience encourages trying again. Usually, people that have a bad experience (or multiple bad experiences) in the past are a little leary of trying again solely based on a company's word. Sorry, but that's the truth. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. If I buy several Fords and have constant problems with each, you can be damn sure I won't buy another one in the future even if the dealer says all the issues are resolved! Same idea here.

I was more than willing to remain civil/professional/diplomatic, but when words were shoved in my mouth, I took offense. And to add insult to injury, was then challenged to provide examples! Like I would just regurgitate what other people said just to get on the bash MA bandwagon! That did it. Don't ask a question and then pout when you hear an answer you don't like! When/if Mike sees this, he can chastise me, but I have to call it like I see it, repercussions be damned.

I agree, the only way to put this to bed would be to have Austin send a test pack to someone to provide graphed results reflecting the claims. Even if they do perform like claimed, that doesn't change the results of past cell testing.

[Overdriven]

Maybe we can start a new thread for discussion solely about the discussion of the test procedure and their newer packs? No previous mishaps to be mentioned, then he might stick around. Be prepared not to gloss us over though, and data/graphs would help. I myself am concerned about longevity as MA says they are, data for this would help here too.

What's unfortunate here is both sides expect more than they are getting from each other. For different reasons. The ones who feel screwed and/or leary want information, explanations and admissions they aren't getting. And MA seems to want to give only simple answers, claims, and what seems to the other party as unsubstantiated information and to recieve some sort of praise for it. As I said it seems MA is starting moving in the right direction though with them doind some actual pack testing. So can we give them a chance in a new thread, and MA can we get "real" answers to "real" questions?

Edit: this was written before your last post BrianG, and I don't blame you or judge your moderating skills in this matter. I also don't mean to sound like a mod with either post, which after rereading kinda does to me.

[lincpimp]

Originally Posted by BrianG

I agree, the only way to put this to bed would be to have Austin send a test pack to someone to provide graphed results reflecting the claims. Even if they do perform like claimed, that doesn't change the results of past cell testing.

If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck...

[TexasSP]

I will offer one last piece of constructive criticism/advice to Austin.

Check out the Castle Creations forum on here and look at the beatings they have taken from many members. Then take a look at how Patrick Del Castillo and the others at CC have responded. This is the perfect example of how to take criticism and respond appropriately to customers. Patrick in the beginning of the MMM issues even made a bet with one member over a free MMM. Patrick then lost the bet and gave the customer the free MMM. CC has constantly been berated on this forum and still comes back to help with a positive attitude. That sir is how customer service is done. Don't blame the customer, accept repsonsibilty, take it in stride, use it to learn, and move down the road.

I would also direct you to the Team Tekin forums and take cues from the Tekin guys as well. Again another perfect example of how to handle criticism and customer service.

[lutach]

Originally Posted by _paralyzed_

Give Lutach a pack, he'll test the bejeesus out of it and post vids.

I would have to pass....I would recommend a member that can be found in rcgroups.com (Sorry to mention another forum here), he goes by the username of everydayflyer and he has tested a lot of lipos.

[_paralyzed_]

Originally Posted by lutach

I would have to pass....I would recommend a member that can be found in rcgroups.com (Sorry to mention another forum here), he goes by the username of everydayflyer and he has tested a lot of lipos.

I just figured you had some amp hungry setups. It was a pipe dream anyway.....

[zeropointbug]

Originally Posted by lutach

I would have to pass....I would recommend a member that can be found in rcgroups.com (Sorry to mention another forum here), he goes by the username of everydayflyer and he has tested a lot of lipos.

YES! Everydayflyer is an AWESOME reviewer! He tested the TP 40C packs along side the G3's, very close in performance. With many many graphs and had all the cycling data based.