Direct to diff outrunner conversion*update*

[sikeston34m]

Hey Lincpimp,

How do you plan on going shaft to shaft with a slipper? If you get that figured out, would you post some pictures please? I've been tossing that around in my head for awhile now, and so far I've come up with nothing.

Before you go paying a wad of money for something that IMO is overpriced. Check out what Lucien has to offer over at http://www.innov8tivedesigns.com/ind...cPath=21_25_38

I'm not sure what length you're looking for, but he has some things that you might be interested in.

I have a 3032-12 that should be here by Thursday. I'm going to test it in my E maxx Direct Drive setup. But soon, I will be doing an E Revo Direct Drive to Diff with a motor similiar to this. The E Revo will probably have to wait on his 40mm motors, which are supposed to be out next month.

[pcnutz]

I would ask a airplane guy, but I think you still use 30 degree timming for 12 pole too

[Serum]

test it; heatgun within reach..

[lincpimp]

Originally Posted by sikeston34m

Hey Lincpimp,

How do you plan on going shaft to shaft with a slipper? If you get that figured out, would you post some pictures please? I've been tossing that around in my head for awhile now, and so far I've come up with nothing.

Before you go paying a wad of money for something that IMO is overpriced. Check out what Lucien has to offer over at http://www.innov8tivedesigns.com/ind...cPath=21_25_38

I'm not sure what length you're looking for, but he has some things that you might be interested in.

I have a 3032-12 that should be here by Thursday. I'm going to test it in my E maxx Direct Drive setup. But soon, I will be doing an E Revo Direct Drive to Diff with a motor similiar to this. The E Revo will probably have to wait on his 40mm motors, which are supposed to be out next month.

Yes, I think the 40mm can would be a better choice, more torque. I like the ring bearing idea, should provide more support for the rear of the can. His prices are good, I will wait on some spec for the 40mm cans and maybe try one out.

No pics yet on the slipper, just ideas in my head. if you are familiar with how the revo slipper works, my idea was to setup each end of the motor shaft with the crosspin hole and a threaded portion for the slipper lock nut. That would allow the main portion of the slipper to mount to the motor. I would then have to come up with some sort of adapter to replace the spur gear. This would have a 5mm (or whatever size needed) extension on it to mount a drive cup to. My only problem is trying to keep the overall length to minimum, and a method to access the slipper adjustment nut. At the moment my adapter looks like a hat that will sit over the end of the slipper nut and mount to the slipper hub with the three screws that usually hold the spur gear. Only problem is that hat covers the nut, requiring removal to adjust the slipper. I could make legs that mount to the slipper and thus leave some room to get a small wrench to the nut, but I think that there would not be enough space b/t the legs to access the nut. I think it would be pretty good having two slippers, as one could be adjusted to give more slip (rear) to aid in cornering traction, etc...

[sikeston34m]

I hope Lucien doesn't mind me quoting him, but he already sent me some of the anticipated specs for the 40mm motors. I'll pass that information on to you.

"Initial plans for the 40mm motors are to have 4 frame sizes. There will be a 4020, 4025, 4035 and 4045 size motor. The 4020 and 4025 will basically be larger versions of the 3008 and 3014 size motors. The 4035 and 4045 will be made a little different, and will have an additional ring bearing that supports the back end of the motor's flux ring. This is done to stabilize the motor, and prevent flexing of the motor shaft under load. I have attached a photo that shows the rear end of a 4045 motor to show this bearing.

The approximate power ratings on the motors and the weights will be as follows:

4020 - 1200 watts, 280 grams, 9.88 ounces
4025 - 1500 watts, 328 grams, 11.57 ounces
4035 - 2000 watts, 488 grams, 17.21 ounces
4045 - 2500 watts, 585 grams, 20.64 ounces

There will be at least 3 different Kv's for each motor, and there may be 4-5 versions of the 4020 size. I have a set of 14 prototypes in the 40mm size right now and they are currently wound with the following Kv numbers, but this is subject to change once the final versions are decided upon.

4020-8 ....... 1000 Kv
4020-10 ....... 786 Kv
4020-12 ....... 701 Kv
4020-14 ....... 591 Kv
4020-16 ....... 526 Kv

4025-10 ....... 631 Kv
4025-12 ....... 565 Kv
4025-16 ....... 422 Kv

4035-10 ....... 446 Kv
4035-12 ....... 386 Kv
4035-14 ....... 328 Kv

4045-10 ....... 381 Kv
4045-12 ....... 315 Kv
4045-14 ....... 272 Kv

Hopefully that answers all of your questions.

Lucien Miller"

The new 30mm outrunner that I'm getting has the endbell bearing also. They are upgrading that line as well.

On the slipper idea, Is there a way to use a thrust bearing on the driveshaft and just control spring tension by how just pressure is on the bearing? Then make both sides of the clutch material stationary? This would move the adjustment to a more external location. The Thrust bearing would have to have a Spring Loaded housing with a "track".
Hmmmm, I'm still processing on this one. Let me read your post a few more times. LOL

[Hickoryhead]

I followed the last thread and this one. Its been awhile since I read the last thread about all this. One question: Can this be done with a in-runner (BL) motor? I mean direct drive it to a transmission?

[lincpimp]

You could use an inrunner, but it would have to be a low kv, like 600-800kv. There is better selection with outrunners, and for me it just is something different!

[MTBikerTim]

the out runners tend to have more poles (mentioned earlier) for more torque.

[Hickoryhead]

I am not trying to change the way this thread is going but could you not go with a little bigger kv say 1000ish and still have plenty of torque? This would be more efficient and have a sealed can. No dust problem in the motor. I don’t have the experience you all do. I just see in-runners utilizing the direct drive setup would be almost unstoppable IMO. I have no desire to try an out runner direct drive here in southern utah. The dust is harsh enough on my in runners. I am following all this hopping that some tries an in runner.

[zeropointbug]

No... you simply can't take a low kv. inrunner (low pole) and run it at the voltages we use, and expect to get decent power from it.

You 'could' get a quite large inrunner, something at the very least a 1527 motor and run it way under powered (for it's size) to get the right rpm out of it to be used on the tranny. I can't really tell you how efficient this would be though.

IMO, the way to do this, is to use higher pole motors (which has higher torque lower rpm, but same power output as similarly sized inrunner) and go directly onto the diffs.

Or, if what you are talking about Hickoryhead, try and find an appropriately sized outrunner and go direct drive to transmission, but I see little gain doing this, IMO.

This is a territory no one has really been yet... it makes things interesting.

[zeropointbug]

I like what you are saying though Hickoryhead, about using an inrunner so everything is nice and sealed from dust.

I wonder about the 19xx Neu motors? I will check this out.

[lincpimp]

Good to see that you are interested in this, Buggie

I will try a larger out runner, maybe with my slipper mod if I have the time to get parts made. Thinking a 46 or 60 in a very light 1/8 buggy. Would like to do 6s or more, what esc choices do i have for running an outrunner? The quark works well but it is 5s max.

[zeropointbug]

I don't know about this dual slipper setup you want to do, it sounds good, but I think the torque will be far to high to be able to use them, they don't have enough holding force, IMO.

If you mod your Quark with some exra caps, like 4 extra to the power lead, you should be able to do 6s lipo. Have you seen my Quark? I am running 7s2p A123, that is higher on state voltage than 6s lipo, and it runs like a dream.

I just checkd out the 19xx Neu motors, but they don't have anything that would work...

[lincpimp]

Ok, the slipper will not have the benifit of tranny gearing and will be overtaxed or simply just not work? Did not think of that. Any idea of a method to give the drivetran a little shock protection. Maybe mount the outrunner to the chassis with some sort of isolator. Rubber, or stiffer material, kind of like full size engine mounts. That would "give" a little to help the shock issue but be solid enough for good power transmission.

I will add a few caps to my quark, thinking of ditching the case and mounting up a heatsink directly to the fets that can also be attached to the chassis for addl heat dissapation. Mybe an al L bracket to the fets and then a heatsink onto that and attach the leg of the L bracket to the chassis. Probably a good idea to support the esc with shrink or some other method so that the weight is not completely supported by the fets. Maybe just shrink the esc to the bracket with some thermal paste and epoxy the heatsink to the bracket. Just an idea, something similar to yours but a little smaller!

[Hickoryhead]

Originally Posted by AAngel

We did a direct to diff conversion on a Kyosho Inferno GT with a Neu 1512 1900kv motor. On 5S with 3.9" GRP Rally tires, we clocked it in excess of 90 mph several times.

AAngel, I would like to hear more about your conversion. How did you mount it to the transmission? Did you modify the motor or leave it stock? Who is we and do you or they have pictures? What kind temps did you get? What batteries where you running with?

For me I would like to see this all happen. Both outrunner and inrunner. I like seeing new stuff come to pass. There are many people were I live and on this forum that can't afford to build what most of us talk about. They can't spend the kind of money we do on Lehner's, Neu's, Quark's.... I can see a way for others to build what we have at a 3rd of the cost.
Thumbs up to every one commited to this project!!!